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Replies:
14
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Last Post:
Oct 24, 2007 3:52 AM
by: kcpoon
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Posts:
988
From:
IE
Registered:
7/14/05
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Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 19, 2007 11:19 AM
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So, as you'll have realised from the recent flurry of activity on
this front again, I've been going through everyone's comments from
the last spec and the demo, to put together this list of proposed
changes for the next (and hopefully final) rev of the NWAM GUI spec
for phase 1.
I'm circulating the list first this time, as time is obviously
getting tight, and I don't want to upset the schedule by updating the
spec with changes that would slip it without good reason. So here's
your opportunity to comment on which ones we should do now, and which
ones we should leave for Phase 2.
Environment Applet
==================
- Rescan wireless networks before context menu is displayed, if a
rescan can typically done in ~1 second or less. (p2)
- Remove separator between favourite and other available wireless
networks; meaning not obvious.
- Relocate list of networks below "Network Preferences" (before
"Switch Environment"). (p2)
- Indicate active network(s) with radiobuttons rather than
checkmarks. Thus clicking an active network will have no effect,
rather than disconnecting you. (Really only allows one wireless
connection at a time, though, or interaction gets messy-- is that an
issue?) (p2)
- Remove "Add to Favorites" submenu, use case probably not frequent
enough. (p2)
- Rename "Join Other Wireless Network" to "Join Unlisted Wireless
Network..." (p2)
- Add 'scanning for new networks' to list of situations when panel
icon should animate. (p4)
- Remove 'now connecting <link>' text from "switched environment"
balloons. (p4)
- Add a balloon for "No wireless networks available". (p4)
Unresolved: how permanent should the effect of manually switching
wireless networks be? Should the current environment be updated to
indicate the new network is the preferred one for this environment?
My suggestion: network switch should last until the environment is
next changed (automatically or manually), and the environment
shouldn't be updated. User can updated manually if they wish.
Network Prefs Dialog
====================
- Seems to be some agreement that there's no need to show a "don't
show me this again" informational message when user clicks "OK". (p6)
- Refresh button should also rescan available wireless networks. (p6)
Connection Status
-----------------
- Show IPv6 link local addresses in list, where applicable (p7)
- Don't bother showing BSSID in list, not sufficiently useful (can
still be viewed if you drill down by double-clicking) (p7)
- Change button labels to "Edit Locations..." and "Edit VPN..." (p7)
Network Config
--------------
- Revise verbage above list to indicate that drag and drop reordering
is possible (p8)
- Go back to calling conditions "Rules" again, for consistency with
environment selection rules (and also because it's shorter, in
English at least, and so should clutter up the list a bit less) (p8)
IPv4 Address
------------
- Change "IPv4 IP" label to something more explicit, e.g. "Current
IPv4 setting" (p10)
- Change "None" entry in dropdown to "Disabled", for consistency with
IPv6 change proposed below (p11)
- Change "Automatic (DHCP)" entry in dropdown to "Assigned by
DHCP" (or just "DHCP"?)-- avoids overloading the term "Automatic",
which is currently being used for the default location. (p11)
- Remove "Renew Lease" button from DHCP pane, should never be needed
(p11)
IPv6 Address
------------
- Change "IPv6 IP" label to match IPv4 label proposal above, e.g.
"Current IPv6 setting" (p12)
- Change parenthesised summary from "None"/"Enabled" to "Current
setting: Disabled" and "Current setting: Enabled" (p12)
- Fix column header label, should be "Prefix Length", not "Prefix" (p12)
Wireless
--------
Unresolved: if "Ask before adding to list of favourite networks"
checkbox is not set, what is the default behaviour when connecting to
a new wireless network-- add to favourites list without asking, or
don't add at all? Whatever the answer, do we need to rework the
interaction logic here a little to make this clear? (p14)
Environment Preferences
=======================
- Change title from "Network Environment Preferences" to "Location
Preferences" (p15). (And all other instances of "Environment" ->
"Location".
Add Wireless Network dialog
---------------------------
- Show example of BSSID format under entry field (p21)
Connect to Wireless Network dialog
----------------------------------
- Clarify in text that there is no need to show this dialog at all if
there are no wireless networks available. (p23)
Missing functionality-- any resolution required for phase 1?
- No way to set Nodename.
- No way to set gateway/router for manually-assigned IPv4 addresses.
Of course, if there are any other issues you think I've missed for
Phase 1, please let me know.
Cheeri,
Calum.
--
CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com GNOME Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 20, 2007 5:49 AM
in response to: calumb
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On 10/19/07, Calum Benson <Calum dot Benson at sun dot com> wrote:
>
> IPv4 Address
> ------------
...
> - Remove "Renew Lease" button from DHCP pane, should never be needed
> (p11)
>
Calum,
can you please elaborate a bit more on what is the reason for removing it ?
I think it is quite useful. Heck, Windows has something similar
("Repair" button)
and I found it helpful from time to time.
--
Regards,
Cyril
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Posts:
3,795
From:
GB
Registered:
3/9/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 2:54 AM
in response to: imp
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Cyril Plisko wrote:
> On 10/19/07, Calum Benson <Calum dot Benson at sun dot com> wrote:
>> IPv4 Address
>> ------------
> ...
>
>> - Remove "Renew Lease" button from DHCP pane, should never be needed
>> (p11)
>>
>
> Calum,
>
> can you please elaborate a bit more on what is the reason for removing it ?
>
> I think it is quite useful. Heck, Windows has something similar
> ("Repair" button)
> and I found it helpful from time to time.
I've also found it useful. Not just under windows but I've found even
with NWAM phase0 I occasionally do "svcadm restart nwam" to emulate
this. Usually on problematic "public" or "semi-public" wifi networks.
--
Darren J Moffat
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Posts:
988
From:
IE
Registered:
7/14/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 10:39 AM
in response to: imp
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On 20 Oct 2007, at 13:49, Cyril Plisko wrote:
> On 10/19/07, Calum Benson <Calum dot Benson at sun dot com> wrote:
>>
>> IPv4 Address
>> ------------
> ...
>
>> - Remove "Renew Lease" button from DHCP pane, should never be needed
>> (p11)
>>
>
> Calum,
>
> can you please elaborate a bit more on what is the reason for
> removing it ?
It was a suggestion from Michael Hunter:
"I think you should dump the "renew lease" button. The only time
its going
to be used will be a mistake." [1]
He didn't elaborate at the time :) Of course, I have no objection to
keeping it if it actually serves a useful purpose... (and by
"useful", I don't count "unbreak me" buttons of the sort that hang
around in GUIs for years because nobody bothered to fix the real bug
that would mean they weren't required any more!)
Cheeri,
Calum.
[1] http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/nwam-discuss/2007-June/
004210.html
--
CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com GNOME Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
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John Beck
jbeck@eng.sun.com
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 10:47 AM
in response to: calumb
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Michael> I think you should dump the "renew lease" button. The only time
Michael> its going to be used will be a mistake.
Given that exactly such a button made the cut on the iPhone, I would have
to disagree with Michael and join with those who suggest that such a button
would be worth having in our GUI. I don't think it will be used often, but
I do think it would be useful for certain "just in case" scenarios.
-- John
http://blogs.sun.com/jbeck
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Posts:
6,813
From:
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Registered:
3/9/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 12:14 PM
in response to: John Beck
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John Beck writes:
> Michael> I think you should dump the "renew lease" button. The only time
> Michael> its going to be used will be a mistake.
>
> Given that exactly such a button made the cut on the iPhone, I would have
> to disagree with Michael and join with those who suggest that such a button
> would be worth having in our GUI. I don't think it will be used often, but
> I do think it would be useful for certain "just in case" scenarios.
When might it be used? What would the user be doing in the case where
the daemon didn't properly check the lease status (as it will do
automatically on link up), but a human would know about this otherwise
silent condition and would know enough to try renewing the lease?
If it were possible to hide "likely confusing and useless" features
away on an expert (or just "grasping at straws") menu, I'd probably
vote to place this sort of thing on that hidden menu.
I'm not wild about having "click me to see what happens" buttons. It
gives the impression that we haven't quite thought out the
functionality and that there are latent bugs. Perhaps worse still, if
there *are* bugs and this mechanism "fixes" (or works around) them,
then the bugs will be that much less likely to be filed. (Maybe that
hidden menu needs an all-caps notice at the type: "IF YOU'RE HERE, AND
ANYTHING HERE HELPS YOU, THEN PLEASE FILE A BUG, BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T
NEED TO BE HERE.")
--
James Carlson, Solaris Networking <james dot d dot carlson at sun dot com>
Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677
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Posts:
401
From:
US
Registered:
3/9/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 2:45 PM
in response to: carlsonj
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I've started to jump into this discussion several times now; but I'm
very ambivalent about it, and haven't managed to come up with a very
conclusive statement yet.
I've actually used the "renew lease" button on my mac, and I think
it was a reasonable action to take given what I'd observed about the
network I was connecting to. Things generally worked; but maybe one
out of four times when plugging into it the dns server address would
be incorrect. My guess is that there were two dhcp servers on the
network, one of which was not configured correctly. In any case,
renewing the dhcp lease "fixed the problem": the correct dns server
address would be configured.
Had I been using my solaris laptop, I could have achieved the same
end by restarting nwam (in fact, this is what others did who were
using the same network). But that's a much bigger hammer. I kind
of liked having a less disruptive option.
In this specific situation, I was glad to have the button. But I
also see Jim's point:
On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 03:14:36PM -0400, James Carlson wrote:
>
> If it were possible to hide "likely confusing and useless" features
> away on an expert (or just "grasping at straws") menu, I'd probably
> vote to place this sort of thing on that hidden menu.
>
> I'm not wild about having "click me to see what happens" buttons. It
> gives the impression that we haven't quite thought out the
> functionality and that there are latent bugs. Perhaps worse still, if
> there *are* bugs and this mechanism "fixes" (or works around) them,
> then the bugs will be that much less likely to be filed. (Maybe that
> hidden menu needs an all-caps notice at the type: "IF YOU'RE HERE, AND
> ANYTHING HERE HELPS YOU, THEN PLEASE FILE A BUG, BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T
> NEED TO BE HERE.")
So I've been trying to figure out what would have helped in the
situation I ran into. What could nwam have done to provide a better
alternative than a "grasping at straws" hammer, whether of the renew-
dhcp-lease size or of the larger restart-nwam size. And I haven't
come up with anything other than fairly complex heuristics that are
pretty far beyond anything we can fit into phase 1 (noticing that
two different dhcp servers are handing out addresses on the same
network, but different dns server information, and one of those
server addresses isn't responding to dns requests...). I would
love to have a better alternative; but until we do, I think I would
vote to keep the renew lease button.
-renee
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 23, 2007 7:37 AM
in response to: okie
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Renee Danson writes:
> I've started to jump into this discussion several times now; but I'm
> very ambivalent about it, and haven't managed to come up with a very
> conclusive statement yet.
>
> I've actually used the "renew lease" button on my mac, and I think
> it was a reasonable action to take given what I'd observed about the
> network I was connecting to. Things generally worked; but maybe one
> out of four times when plugging into it the dns server address would
> be incorrect. My guess is that there were two dhcp servers on the
> network, one of which was not configured correctly. In any case,
In that case, the sort of interface I'd expect would be:
- A top-level "something doesn't seem right here."
- A lower-level (detailed) display showing the conflicting DHCP
server addresses and the parameters provided by each.
- Perhaps a mechanism to filter away a known-rogue server. (Though,
obviously, such a thing should be fixed at the source.)
I don't think that punching a button and hoping the timing comes out
differently on this go-round is a good way to deal with a problem like
that.
> So I've been trying to figure out what would have helped in the
> situation I ran into. What could nwam have done to provide a better
> alternative than a "grasping at straws" hammer, whether of the renew-
> dhcp-lease size or of the larger restart-nwam size. And I haven't
> come up with anything other than fairly complex heuristics that are
> pretty far beyond anything we can fit into phase 1 (noticing that
> two different dhcp servers are handing out addresses on the same
> network, but different dns server information, and one of those
> server addresses isn't responding to dns requests...).
Noticing two different servers would itself be an interesting event.
Noticing that they were providing different information would also be
interesting.
I wouldn't gate this on whether the DNS server addresses (if any)
appeared to be alive. First of all, you can't tell whether something
is "alive" except historically, and secondly, it probably doesn't
matter, because conflicting information is itself a Bad Thing.
--
James Carlson, Solaris Networking <james dot d dot carlson at sun dot com>
Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677
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Posts:
630
From:
HK
Registered:
3/9/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 24, 2007 3:52 AM
in response to: okie
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Renee Danson wrote:
> come up with anything other than fairly complex heuristics that are
> pretty far beyond anything we can fit into phase 1 (noticing that
> two different dhcp servers are handing out addresses on the same
> network, but different dns server information, and one of those
> server addresses isn't responding to dns requests...).
A question, there is a section on DHCP changes for this
type of detection in the design document. Are these DHCP
handling modifications in scope of phase 1?
--
K. Poon.
kacheong dot poon at sun dot com
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 4:25 PM
in response to: carlsonj
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On 10/22/07, James Carlson <james dot d dot carlson at sun dot com> wrote:
>
> When might it be used? What would the user be doing in the case where
> the daemon didn't properly check the lease status (as it will do
> automatically on link up), but a human would know about this otherwise
> silent condition and would know enough to try renewing the lease?
Here is the real-life case. My home [wireless] router is quite old and
has firmware bug[s]. These bugs cause it to hard hang from time to time.
Unfortunately I am not the only user on my home net. Kids are
often there with their urgent need for chatting etc. So they "fix the
Internet" by resetting the power of the router. The net effect is that
its builtin DHCP server forgets all the previous leases and starts
from the very beginning. Like I said he firmware is old and buggy,
so it happily leases the IP address that are already assigned
to other machines on the network (I have 3 to 5 machines pretty
much all the time connected).
In this situation "Renew Lease"/"Repair" button is a really quick
way to get myself working again in case IP conflict is created.
>
> If it were possible to hide "likely confusing and useless" features
> away on an expert (or just "grasping at straws") menu, I'd probably
> vote to place this sort of thing on that hidden menu.
>
> I'm not wild about having "click me to see what happens" buttons. It
> gives the impression that we haven't quite thought out the
> functionality and that there are latent bugs. Perhaps worse still, if
> there *are* bugs and this mechanism "fixes" (or works around) them,
> then the bugs will be that much less likely to be filed. (Maybe that
> hidden menu needs an all-caps notice at the type: "IF YOU'RE HERE, AND
> ANYTHING HERE HELPS YOU, THEN PLEASE FILE A BUG, BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T
> NEED TO BE HERE.")
I believe it is more for working around _other's_ bugs, rather than Solaris/nwam
bugs. You know the world isn't a perfect place and not all the vendors
have bastions in form of PSARC on a way of imperfect code/design...
--
Regards,
Cyril
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 23, 2007 7:43 AM
in response to: imp
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Cyril Plisko writes:
> Here is the real-life case. My home [wireless] router is quite old and
> has firmware bug[s]. These bugs cause it to hard hang from time to time.
> Unfortunately I am not the only user on my home net. Kids are
> often there with their urgent need for chatting etc. So they "fix the
> Internet" by resetting the power of the router. The net effect is that
> its builtin DHCP server forgets all the previous leases and starts
> from the very beginning. Like I said he firmware is old and buggy,
> so it happily leases the IP address that are already assigned
> to other machines on the network (I have 3 to 5 machines pretty
> much all the time connected).
Yikes!
> In this situation "Renew Lease"/"Repair" button is a really quick
> way to get myself working again in case IP conflict is created.
Would determining (via configuration or through some sort of detection
process) that a given server is "unreliable" help here? If we knew
that a server was unreliable, we could do much more frequent lease
checks. It's just a single unicast UDP packet exchange, so it's not
like checking once a minute or even once every few seconds would hurt
on most minimally functional networks.
> > then the bugs will be that much less likely to be filed. (Maybe that
> > hidden menu needs an all-caps notice at the type: "IF YOU'RE HERE, AND
> > ANYTHING HERE HELPS YOU, THEN PLEASE FILE A BUG, BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T
> > NEED TO BE HERE.")
>
> I believe it is more for working around _other's_ bugs, rather than Solaris/nwam
> bugs. You know the world isn't a perfect place and not all the vendors
> have bastions in form of PSARC on a way of imperfect code/design...
That wasn't the point at all.
If you're working around OpenSolaris bugs, then I think we definitely
want to know about those. That's one (possible) usage case for a
"renew now" feature.
If you're working around other people's bugs, then a "renew now"
feature is a pretty blunt instrument. I suspect that we need some
better mechanisms to monitor and adapt to those situations so that
users don't _have_ to do these things. That's the "m" part of "nwam."
I wasn't saying that we should remove the button entirely, but hide it
away if at all possible. It seems like a hack. Perhaps a useful one,
but still a hack.
And, no, I don't know how PSARC got involved here.
--
James Carlson, Solaris Networking <james dot d dot carlson at sun dot com>
Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677
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Posts:
542
From:
Registered:
5/11/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 3:05 PM
in response to: imp
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On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:49:28 +0200
Cyril Plisko <cyril dot plisko at mountall dot com> wrote:
> On 10/19/07, Calum Benson <Calum dot Benson at sun dot com> wrote:
> >
> > IPv4 Address
> > ------------
> ...
>
> > - Remove "Renew Lease" button from DHCP pane, should never be needed
> > (p11)
> >
>
> Calum,
>
> can you please elaborate a bit more on what is the reason for removing it ?
The reasons JDC gave were along the lines I was thinking when I said
that. Renee and Darren give use cases but it only works for them
because they know what to look for.
>
> I think it is quite useful. Heck, Windows has something similar
> ("Repair" button)
> and I found it helpful from time to time.
If the semantic is "I'm telling you it doesn't work right, try things
to get it right" then I like the "Repair" button. But "Renew Lease" is
a pretty specific action. I could deal with having a Repair button if
that acted like the trigger to cause the higher level logic Renee talks
about happen in the future. In her case what we really want to figure
out is that we should black list one of the DHCP servers not just keep
rolling the 5 sided dice hoping it doesn't come up a snake eye. How to
do this and keep the system from becoming opaque and hard to diagnose
is a different question.
mph
>
> --
> Regards,
> Cyril
> _______________________________________________
> nwam-discuss mailing list
> nwam-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/nwam-discuss
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Posts:
988
From:
IE
Registered:
7/14/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 3:23 PM
in response to: mph
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On 22 Oct 2007, at 23:07, Michael Hunter wrote:
> If the semantic is "I'm telling you it doesn't work right, try things
> to get it right" then I like the "Repair" button. But "Renew
> Lease" is
> a pretty specific action. I could deal with having a Repair button if
> that acted like the trigger to cause the higher level logic Renee
> talks
> about happen in the future. In her case what we really want to figure
> out is that we should black list one of the DHCP servers not just keep
> rolling the 5 sided dice hoping it doesn't come up a snake eye.
> How to
> do this and keep the system from becoming opaque and hard to diagnose
> is a different question.
So would having a "Repair" button, whose functionality might improve
over time (all it would do in Phase 1 would be Renew Lease), be a
better option? And if so, would it go in the same place in the UI,
or somewhere else?
Cheeri,
Calum.
--
CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com GNOME Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
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Posts:
542
From:
Registered:
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 4:30 PM
in response to: calumb
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:23:35 +0100
Calum Benson <Calum dot Benson at Sun dot COM> wrote:
>
> On 22 Oct 2007, at 23:07, Michael Hunter wrote:
>
> > If the semantic is "I'm telling you it doesn't work right, try things
> > to get it right" then I like the "Repair" button. But "Renew
> > Lease" is
> > a pretty specific action. I could deal with having a Repair button if
> > that acted like the trigger to cause the higher level logic Renee
> > talks
> > about happen in the future. In her case what we really want to figure
> > out is that we should black list one of the DHCP servers not just keep
> > rolling the 5 sided dice hoping it doesn't come up a snake eye.
> > How to
> > do this and keep the system from becoming opaque and hard to diagnose
> > is a different question.
>
> So would having a "Repair" button, whose functionality might improve
> over time (all it would do in Phase 1 would be Renew Lease), be a
> better option?
I think so. Would it be the best option? Not sure. Would love to
hear what others think.
> And if so, would it go in the same place in the UI,
> or somewhere else?
I'm not very good at visualizing these types of things. From a general
sense it should be pretty high up in the command hierarchy.
mph
>
> Cheeri,
> Calum.
>
> --
> CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
> mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com GNOME Desktop Team
> http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
>
> Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
>
>
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Proposed UI changes
Posted:
Oct 22, 2007 4:40 PM
in response to: calumb
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On 10/23/07, Calum Benson <Calum dot Benson at sun dot com> wrote:
>
> So would having a "Repair" button, whose functionality might improve
> over time (all it would do in Phase 1 would be Renew Lease), be a
> better option?
I think so.
> And if so, would it go in the same place in the UI,
> or somewhere else?
I think it should be associated with the network connection, rather than
with the IPv4 address of that particular network connection.
For example Windows "Repair" button goes all the way to disconnect/
reconnect wireless connection, which is far beyond simple DHCP lease
renew.
>
> Cheeri,
> Calum.
>
> --
> CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
> mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com GNOME Desktop Team
> http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
>
> Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nwam-discuss mailing list
> nwam-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/nwam-discuss
>
--
Regards,
Cyril
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