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Replies:
7
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Last Post:
Jul 18, 2005 5:19 AM
by: joerg
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From:
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"... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 15, 2005 10:50 AM
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Because these forums are surely being read by many (probably thousands)
of people who are far less familiar with Solaris/OpenSolaris than the
people who post here, I'd like to strongly caution people about the use
of the phrase "on OpenSolaris" -- especially saying something resides
or runs "on OpenSolaris"[1]. It's very misleading and causes people to
believe that we (Sun) have produced an open-source (i.e. modify'able,
redistributable) OpenSolaris CD/DVD offering.
OpenSolaris is a developer program built around the OpenSolaris
source-tree. But OpenSolaris is absolutely _not_ the name of an
operating system distro.
In my view, it'd be much better to say that things run on (or reside on,
or whatever) _an implementation_ of OpenSolaris, e.g. "the xyz
implementation of OpenSolaris"; or if you want to be more specific:
Solaris Express, Solaris n (e.g. Solaris 10), or SchilliX, whatever the
case may be.
--Eric
[1] Doing a quick search in the recent archives, I found it was used
this way in three different threads, by different people each time:
Subject: Feature request
Subject: KDE 3.4.1 Solaris 10: Source Code Patches
Subject: developing free software for OpenSolaris
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Dennis Clarke
blastwave@gmail.com
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Re: [osol-discuss] "... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 15, 2005 11:07 AM
in response to: ericb
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On 7/15/05, Eric Boutilier <Eric dot Boutilier at sun dot com> wrote:
> Because these forums are surely being read by many (probably thousands)
> of people who are far less familiar with Solaris/OpenSolaris than the
> people who post here, I'd like to strongly caution people about the use
> of the phrase "on OpenSolaris"
Its like "runs on Linux" as opposed to "runs on Red Hat" or "Runs on
SUSE" or "runs on Windows NT 4.0" etc etc.
I think that runs on OpenSolaris is just fine for the sake of general
discussion really.
I have no idea how else to put it really.
Runs on Nevada ? Runs on snv_16 or nv_xx? I don't think that will help
people understand.
Dennis
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Posts:
31
From:
Menlo Park, CA
Registered:
6/23/05
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[osol-discuss] Update on "Based on OpenSolaris" wordmark
[was "... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron]
Posted:
Jul 18, 2005 12:24 AM
in response to: Dennis Clarke
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I have a bit more (sigh) legwork to do to finalize the lightweight TM license
that is needed to enable some kind of "based on OpenSolaris" or "includes
OpenSolaris technology" or "powered by OpenSolaris" tagline, that spells out
what standards need to be met in order to call yourself that.
It seems to make sense to have some kind of standard - I suppose it would be
confusing for customers to see a product that purports to be "based on
OpenSolaris" which does not include a single line of OpenSolaris source code.
We're aiming for a really low bar - something like any derived work that
contains at least 1 OpenSolaris source file - still need to noodle that one a
bit and I welcome comments.
And in the meantime, I'd love input, comments, votes on the 3 "taglines" I'm
considering.
PLS SEND THEM TO ME PRIVATELY if possible. I don't want you guys to influence
each other. I'll send out a summary of input received, I promise (although,
depending on when and how much input I get, the summary may not come out til
after my Aug vacation.)
- Based on OpenSolaris
- includes OpenSolaris technology
- Powered by OpenSolaris
The 3rd one has an alternate meaning - it could also be used to flag any system
that is running on the OpenSolaris bits.
Comments welcome.
Claire
p.s.
Dennis Clarke wrote:
> On 7/15/05, Eric Boutilier <Eric dot Boutilier at sun dot com> wrote:
>
>>Because these forums are surely being read by many (probably thousands)
>>of people who are far less familiar with Solaris/OpenSolaris than the
>>people who post here, I'd like to strongly caution people about the use
>>of the phrase "on OpenSolaris"
>
>
> Its like "runs on Linux" as opposed to "runs on Red Hat" or "Runs on
> SUSE" or "runs on Windows NT 4.0" etc etc.
>
> I think that runs on OpenSolaris is just fine for the sake of general
> discussion really.
>
> I have no idea how else to put it really.
>
> Runs on Nevada ? Runs on snv_16 or nv_xx? I don't think that will help
> people understand.
>
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> opensolaris-mktg mailing list
> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
3,783
From:
DE
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Re: [osol-discuss] "... on OpenSolaris" is an
oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 18, 2005 5:19 AM
in response to: Dennis Clarke
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Dennis Clarke <blastwave at gmail dot com> wrote:
> On 7/15/05, Eric Boutilier <Eric dot Boutilier at sun dot com> wrote:
> > Because these forums are surely being read by many (probably thousands)
> > of people who are far less familiar with Solaris/OpenSolaris than the
> > people who post here, I'd like to strongly caution people about the use
> > of the phrase "on OpenSolaris"
>
> Its like "runs on Linux" as opposed to "runs on Red Hat" or "Runs on
> SUSE" or "runs on Windows NT 4.0" etc etc.
>
> I think that runs on OpenSolaris is just fine for the sake of general
> discussion really.
Could you please tell us what implication you have from the phrase:
"runs on OpenSolaris" ?
Jörg
--
EMail:joerg at schily dot isdn dot cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling at fokus dot fraunhofer dot de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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From:
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Re: "... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 15, 2005 11:44 AM
in response to: ericb
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005, I wrote:
> Because these forums are surely being read by many (probably thousands)
> of people who are far less familiar with Solaris/OpenSolaris than the
> people who post here, I'd like to strongly caution people about the use
> of the phrase "on OpenSolaris" -- especially saying something resides
> or runs "on OpenSolaris"[1]. It's very misleading and causes people to
> believe that we (Sun) have produced an open-source (i.e. modify'able,
> redistributable) OpenSolaris CD/DVD offering.
>
> OpenSolaris is a developer program built around the OpenSolaris
> source-tree. But OpenSolaris is absolutely _not_ the name of an
> operating system distro.
>
> In my view, it'd be much better to say that things run on (or reside on,
> or whatever) _an implementation_ of OpenSolaris, e.g. "the xyz
> implementation of OpenSolaris"; or if you want to be more specific:
> Solaris Express, Solaris n (e.g. Solaris 10), or SchilliX, whatever the
> case may be.
Thinking about this some more in light of John Plocher's e-mail, I
retract the first part of the above suggestion because it's also very
misleading to refer anything at this point as "Sun's implementation of
OpenSolaris" because those implementations (Solaris Express and
Solaris) are still mostly not open-source yet.
Best to just be specific whenever saying something is "on" some
platform. The choices so far are Solaris, Solaris Express, and SchillX.
Eric
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Posts:
1,901
From:
NZ
Registered:
6/16/05
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Re: "... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 15, 2005 5:48 PM
in response to: ericb
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Hey,
> OpenSolaris is a developer program built around the OpenSolaris
> source-tree. But OpenSolaris is absolutely _not_ the name of an
> operating system distro.
But we're all in agreement of that's where we want to take the project
long term? I guess I'd like to see someone state whether this is or
isn't a desired long term goal?
Glynn
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Re: "... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 16, 2005 7:48 AM
in response to: gman
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[ Adding cab-discuss to the Cc ]
> > OpenSolaris is a developer program built around the OpenSolaris
> > source-tree. But OpenSolaris is absolutely _not_ the name of an
> > operating system distro.
>
> But we're all in agreement of that's where we want to take the project
> long term? I guess I'd like to see someone state whether this is or
> isn't a desired long term goal?
I'll chime in.
First, just to be clear, I'm assuming that we're talking about a
reference core operating system release bearing the name OpenSolaris...
I think the answer to your question is that nobody's sure yet. But your
question suggests another really good question: Should Sun be the body
to decide if/when such a thing is released and exactly what it's
composed of? I hope not. I think that even though the word OpenSolaris
is a trademark of Sun (and even though IANAM[1]), it's safe to assume
that a serious, CAB-backed community consortium could define and drive
such a project (a reference core OS bearing the name OpenSolaris).
Eric
[1] I am not a manager
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Posts:
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From:
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Re: "... on OpenSolaris" is an oxymoron
Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 1:55 PM
in response to: ericb
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Heya,
> > But we're all in agreement of that's where we want to take the project
> > long term? I guess I'd like to see someone state whether this is or
> > isn't a desired long term goal?
>
> I'll chime in.
>
> First, just to be clear, I'm assuming that we're talking about a
> reference core operating system release bearing the name OpenSolaris...
Right - and I think there's a lot of value for that. I guess right now I
feel there's a substantial amount of duplication of work getting a
derivative distribution based on OpenSolaris. I'd like to see us getting
a core workings of a distribution going and make it *really easy* to be
able to create derivatives from there [see Debian/Ubuntu].
> I think the answer to your question is that nobody's sure yet. But your
> question suggests another really good question: Should Sun be the body
> to decide if/when such a thing is released and exactly what it's
> composed of? I hope not. I think that even though the word OpenSolaris
> is a trademark of Sun (and even though IANAM[1]), it's safe to assume
> that a serious, CAB-backed community consortium could define and drive
> such a project (a reference core OS bearing the name OpenSolaris).
Absolutely not - I would very much hope that the CAB could, as you say,
define and drive such a project along with the community, while
respectfully keeping in touch with upstream Solaris to avoid divergence
as much as possible.
Glynn
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