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by: teresag
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LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 12, 2005 5:41 PM
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Well, LinuxWorld is over. Here's the wrap up as it applies to
OpenSolaris marketing and evangelism.
On Tues the booth was manned by Stephen Lau, Dan Price, Eric Schrock,
Derek Cicero and myself.
On Wed it was Stephen and myself.
On Thurs it was Jim and myself.
Booth attendance was exceptional. We only had two problems to speak of,
we didn't have enough DVDs and dehydration. During all three days we
never went more than 5 minutes without talking to someone, and in fact
an overwhelming amount of the time we were talking to 3 or more people
at a time, which is remarkable given that we were somewhat buried in the
middle of the booth.
Demo's tended to revolve around DTrace, Zones and SMF. Having a non-Sun
system there (mine) proved exceptionally useful in illustrating the
massively improved driver support in Solaris10. Having DVDs on hand
(although not nearly enough) was enough to blow the minds of several
attendees. Providing the source, access to the online source browser,
access to developers via the communities, and free access to Sun Studio
also perked up a lot of ears.
Folks coming to the booth fell into 4 categories:
1) Leeches: People who didn't run Solaris... didn't run Linux... I think
were homeless, and just came with their hands out (literally) or simply
grabbed goodies off the cabnet if I forgot to put them away. Some very
bold people. It didn't help much that each pod had Puzzle peices that
attendees were supposed to collect to get stuff, and lots of people only
wanted the piece. In some small number of cases I used the puzzle
peices to my advantage, but often they just interupted truely interested
people.
2) Long time Solaris shops: These users had Sun systems and Solaris
deployeed already and loved them, but were migrating to Linux (generally
RHEL) due to cost. These were my favorite folks. The first part of the
discussion was almost a confessional, where they whispered that they
hated Linux and so far have just had massive problems with reliability
and the support was terrible if they could get it at all. They were
desprate and hurting... hurting bad. Just having someone to talk to
that understood their problems seemed to really help them quite a lot.
Then we would start talking about features in Solaris10, since most of
them had Solaris8 or older deployed. They were blown away. Then things
would come back to cost... they knew that the Sun TCO was lower than
RHEL, but they couldn't convince their powers-that-be... so I'd put a
Solaris DVD in their hand and tell them that they were free to run it in
production, no strings, no BS, call us when you'd like a support
contract. At that point some of them almost started crying. It was
great. I talked to one guy that had RHEL deployeed, couldn't tolerate
the reliablity problems they were having, and were paying more than
$22,000 for support... and that didn't include priority phone support,
just access to the Red Hat Network. I talked to a gentleman at Siemen's
who was desprate to stay with Sun and really left ready to fight. I had
almost two dozen people like this.
3) Folks that knew of Solaris, used it here or there, but needed
convincing: These users either had some Sun system deployeed or had
played around with it to varying degrees. For these people we just
start talking about features that they don't have anywhere else, talk
about standards, about portability, debunk all this "only on linux" BS,
talk about reliability and scaliblity, talk about driver support,
storage functionality, development tools, what OpenSolaris gives them,
Sun support, Ultra20's, SunFire's and Niagra, Sun's partners. I'd tend
to start with "Let me show you something kool." and go from there. Lots
of "wow" and "thats kool!" whispers were heard. And these guys were fun
because I just kept the kool stuff train a-rollin'. SMF blew minds.
DTrace wow'ed people. Zones got people thinking of new possibilities.
Again, with these people when I'd get to a point where they were
literally speechless I'd pull out a DVD and put it in their hands and
say "There you go. All that we've just talked about, there it is, in
your hands." and they'd just be blown away. About the only thing at
that point they could ask was "How is Sun going to make money?" And I
had an answer for that too.
4) Open source developers: Enlightenment was a good draw from the real
geeks in the crowd. They'd walk by and see my desktop and become
interested. They'd get close and get excited when they saw it. (a good
amount of the hardcore open source crowd has been waiting for
Enlightenment 17 for years... seeing it running on OpenSolaris wasn't
something they expected). With these guys I had instant credability and
we started talking about choices, and that OpenSolaris was an amazing
choice, and then we'd talk about the code, the tools, Sun Studio,
Ultra20's, etc. With these guys we got to talk about some of the other
killer features most enterprise folks don't care about like GRUB and
being able to smoothly dual boot Linux, BSD, or whatever they wanted.
All of these guys left with information they didn't previously have and
weren't looking for, but were excited to get home and check it out for
themselves.
So, things went, all-in-all, really well. We didn't really have any
trouble makers, just lots of leechers. A couple of times the puzzle
peices helped me engage a user that didn't even want to think about Sun
(but wanted the shirt) and I was able to make an impression on them. If
I thought they looked sensable I'd hold the puzzle peice in front of
them firmly and start asking questions... they didn't want to listen,
but I made sure they got some facts before the went on their way. Some
of these turned into case #3 above, others just grinned and nodded
untill I released the puzzle peice to them.
I had three aces up my sleeve: 1) the kilt drew interest. 2) showing
off a non-Sun workation running something other than JDS that was used
for real open source development appealed to people and show the
versility of Solaris. 3) people loved the candor. If someone wanted to
badmouth Sun I'd give them 2 or 3 more that they hadn't heard of and
then straighted them out. If they felt that something wasn't
implemented well in the past (like Solaris 8 sucking on X86) I shared
their pain, appologiesed, and then showed them what we'd done to fix
it. Just being natural and unstuffy was welcome to just about everyone.
BOF attendance was poor. We really should have had handouts or
fliers. Next time I do something like this I'm going to have to
remember to at least bring post-it notes or something... we were just
writting things down for people on the back of the puzzle pieces. We
had a handful of people at the BOF but every other BOF did too. I think
people by-and-large were just worn out and hungry. Tues is typically
(and was this year) the biggest day of the show. Never the less, those
that were there left interested and eager. Several of them came back to
the booth in the following days to talk some more.
There is my report. Let me know if anyone needs further information
or anything.
benr.
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Posts:
3
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Registered:
8/12/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 12, 2005 9:25 PM
in response to: benr
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Until now I was just a guest who read all the posts and kept an eye on OpenSolaris - am a Gentoo user (2005.1 is out and the X LiveCD is really cool!) I also run Solaris 10 on a spare Athlon system after a friend convinced me to try it out. I love DTrace - I'd like to get it on my Linux boxes too.
What got me to register? This post really ticked me off - registered just to reply. Sun is supposed to be supporting Linux and Solaris isn't it??? Unfortunately I wasn't at LinuxWorld this year but you know what it's "Linux"World... If Sun and OpenSolaris want to work together and collaborate with the Linux community that's great; let's make some great software. But you need to realize Linux is cool too and has some advantages over S10.
I highly doubt your post or actions reflect the right attitude to take in bringing two communities together - if anything you're leaching off the Linux community sitting around at "Linux"World just trying to "convert" people instead of working with them. You've basically just said you sat around at LinuxWorld and told everyone "Screw Linux, try out Solaris because it's better" and that's not a universal truth. There are a lot of reasons people flocked to Linux and left Solaris, AIX, IRIX, etc, etc. Wake up; that's not how you bring in developers who worked hard on various parts of Linux and OSS that OpenSolaris leverages as well.
I doubt you speak for everyone but you've underscored something that I don't quite understand about this dual "We support Linux and Solaris" mantra... Apparently if you're working the Sun booth you have enough ties to be a representative of the company and I don't think your post has reflected a positive Linux message whatsoever. Did you even have Linux running anywhere in the booth? I was at SF-LW last year and loved the Looking Glass on JDS/Linux...
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Posts:
316
From:
Milwaukee WI
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 12, 2005 10:41 PM
in response to: jdanisek
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On 8/12/05, Jen <jdanisek at gmail dot com> wrote:
> Until now I was just a guest who read all the posts and kept an eye on OpenSolaris - am a Gentoo user (2005.1 is out and the X LiveCD is really cool!) I also run Solaris 10 on a spare Athlon system after a friend convinced me to try it out. I love DTrace - I'd like to get it on my Linux boxes too.
>
Its great that you Use Solaris 10 and Dtrace. I love Dtrace as well.
> What got me to register? This post really ticked me off - registered just to reply. Sun is supposed to be supporting Linux and Solaris isn't it??? Unfortunately I wasn't at LinuxWorld this year but you know what it's "Linux"World... If Sun and OpenSolaris want to work together and collaborate with the Linux community that's great; let's make some great software. But you need to realize Linux is cool too and has some advantages over S10.
>
Sun is a company; it supports its own interests as well as the
OpenSource community. Sun has done a lot to support OpenSource and
Linux. Are you referring to Linux the Kernel or Linux as all
Distributions that run the Linux's kernel? If you referring to
distributions. It has people working on a number of projects that
directly affect Linux. Gnome, X.org, OpenOffice to name a few, they
also submit numerous bug fixes to OpenSource packages It looks like
we are working together and creating some great software, with in the
limits of licenses involved. Sun just didn't dump a bunch of files on
the OpenSource community they dumped documentation for problems faced
when implementing ideas in Solaris, this knowledge can be implemented
in Linux as well Sun has many more years experience in creating stable
and scalable OS's than Linux, and it is sharing its knowledge, that is
far more than others that are hanging onto the OpenSource community
like HP, that won't even OpenSource 5 year old printer drivers.
Yes we do realize Linux is cool and has advantages, Linux has great
hardware drivers, and some of the distributions have excellent package
management. Most of the people on this list own at least one Linux
box, I own 3 in fact.
> I highly doubt your post or actions reflect the right attitude to take in bringing two communities together - if anything you're leaching off the Linux community sitting around at "Linux"World just trying to "convert" people instead of working with them. You've basically just said you sat around at LinuxWorld and told everyone "Screw Linux, try out Solaris because it's better" and that's not a universal truth. There are a lot of reasons people flocked to Linux and left Solaris, AIX, IRIX, etc, etc. Wake up; that's not how you bring in developers who worked hard on various parts of Linux and OSS that OpenSolaris leverages as well.
>
If we succeeded in getting someone to try Solaris, we have not leeched
off the Linux community, most people at the Linux World convention has
more than one computer, just as you do. We are exposing them to new
ideas and technologies not available in Linux and they may turn around
use the ideas to make Linux better. Have you responded to the BSD
community as well it had representation at LinuxWorld as well?
Solaris and Linux are both tools, we are trying to improve OpenSolaris
so that it's a better tool, but it's still just a tool. It's always
best to use the best tool for the job. If you only have one tool in
your toolbox there are many jobs that will not be easy to accomplish.
Is the screwdriver company leeching off the hammer company? Dtrace
that is part of Solaris is a tool that can help Linux and OpenSource
developers find and fix bugs in OpenSource software whether it runs on
OpenSolaris or Linux. Dtrace has already found bugs in OpenSource
software and they were fixed and the fix has been put back to the
OpenSource community, thus helping Linux.
> I doubt you speak for everyone but you've underscored something that I don't quite understand about this dual "We support Linux and Solaris" mantra... Apparently if you're working the Sun booth you have enough ties to be a representative of the company and I don't think your post has reflected a positive Linux message whatsoever. Did you even have Linux running anywhere in the booth? I was at SF-LW last year and loved the Looking Glass on JDS/Linux...
The person that wrote the post you responded too, doesn't work for
Sun, and neither do I. Corporate directions change, JDS on Linux is no
longer a focus so it was not at the Show. As mentioned above, Sun does
support OpenSource, and freely puts back numerous code changes so it
does support Linux. It also wants to make Solaris as best it can be at
the same time. Sun fully supports Linux on all of x86 and Opteron
hardware.
James Dickens
uadmin.blogspot.com
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> opensolaris-mktg mailing list
> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris dot org
>
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Posts:
917
From:
Registered:
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Re: Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 13, 2005 12:13 AM
in response to: jdanisek
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Jen wrote:
>Until now I was just a guest who read all the posts and kept an eye on OpenSolaris - am a Gentoo user (2005.1 is out and the X LiveCD is really cool!) I also run Solaris 10 on a spare Athlon system after a friend convinced me to try it out. I love DTrace - I'd like to get it on my Linux boxes too.
>
>What got me to register? This post really ticked me off - registered just to reply. Sun is supposed to be supporting Linux and Solaris isn't it??? Unfortunately I wasn't at LinuxWorld this year but you know what it's "Linux"World... If Sun and OpenSolaris want to work together and collaborate with the Linux community that's great; let's make some great software. But you need to realize Linux is cool too and has some advantages over S10.
>
>I highly doubt your post or actions reflect the right attitude to take in bringing two communities together - if anything you're leaching off the Linux community sitting around at "Linux"World just trying to "convert" people instead of working with them. You've basically just said you sat around at LinuxWorld and told everyone "Screw Linux, try out Solaris because it's better" and that's not a universal truth. There are a lot of reasons people flocked to Linux and left Solaris, AIX, IRIX, etc, etc. Wake up; that's not how you bring in developers who worked hard on various parts of Linux and OSS that OpenSolaris leverages as well.
>
>I doubt you speak for everyone but you've underscored something that I don't quite understand about this dual "We support Linux and Solaris" mantra... Apparently if you're working the Sun booth you have enough ties to be a representative of the company and I don't think your post has reflected a positive Linux message whatsoever. Did you even have Linux running anywhere in the booth? I was at SF-LW last year and loved the Looking Glass on JDS/Linux...
>
>
Hello Jen.
I'm not quite sure how I ticked you off, and your putting words in my
mouth, but thats ok. I can understand how you feel. I'm posting my
report to the OpenSolaris marketing list and hence I'm not going to
spend time sharing all the great things I said about Linux... but if
thats what you'd like lets do that.
Was I running Linux in the booth? Yes, in a sense. I brought my
personal workstation. Anyone that knows me will be glad to tell you
that I'm a massive fan of Gentoo, in fact, I'm writting this message on
Gentoo Linux. I've run Linux for years, active in the community, etc,
etc, etc. My workstation dual booths Gentoo Linux and OpenSolaris. One
of the many reasons that I brought my workstation was to illustrate how
easy it is for someone currently using Linux to also install OpenSolaris
and allow quick booting between the two from a centralized and unified
booth infistructure (that being GRUB). Only once did someone that I
talk to seem interested in this capability and I was thrilled ot show
off NewBoot, boot into Kernel 2.6.8, poke around, then reboot back into
OpenSolaris B18.
Now.. I take _great_ offence to your saying that I would say "screw
linux". You've done what the press has done to Sun... I did NOT
attack, nor shall I ever, Linux. I DO have some harsh things to say
about Red Hat Enterprise Linux. RHEL is screwing their customers, they
believe their getting something inexpensive and then they get a bill and
start scratching their head. Plus, support is terrible! Here are my
key points in the Red Hat/Linux/Sun discussion:
- If Solaris is known for one thing, and one thing only, its
reliability. Solaris powers hospitals, governments, major
corperations. Reliability is key. Linux _can_ be reliable, but doesn't
have the track record that Solaris has.
- Linux is a wonderful desktop operating system. Driver support is
superior to Solaris, no one, no where, will dispute that.
Solaris/OpenSolaris driver support is getting significantly better,
build by build, but Linux is the UNIX driver king, and we won't argue
that at all. Despite that, I'll add, my Canon digital camera works, my
iPod works, etc.
- Linux is an amazing platform for HPC. While Solaris can do the HPC
thing (HPC ClusterTools <http://, N1
Grid Engine <http://) you just
can't argue with Linux's real strong point, which is HPC cluster
solutions such as OpenMOSIX and Beowulf. If your deploying HPC, by all
means, go Linux, if a node blows up, no biggy... but if your deploying a
billing system thats going to be the life blood of your company, thats a
diffrent story.
- While, for years, Linux was the best development platform around,
with innovations such as DTrace, the availblity of Sun ONE Studio, and
the variety of tools in Solaris 10 you simply can't discount Solaris as
a comprehensive development platform. Personally, speaking for myself,
I find myself frustrated with the limited tools on Linux and have moved
much of my development to OpenSolaris, booting back to Linux for
testing. Thats not for everyone, but its a far cry from Solaris9 and
prior when it just didn't make sense to do X86 development on Solaris;
at which time I actually did the opposite, I'd develop on Linux and then
test on Solaris.
- RHEL isn't the cheap solution that everyone wants you to believe that
it is. The pricing structure is insane. You generaly pay the same
price for enterprise applications such as Oracle or DB2 on Linux as you
pay on Solaris, AIX, HP or whatever. Where is this magical cost saving
solution?
- Solaris engineers work for Sun, if your problem can't be properly
resolved you can escalate the issue to get to the guy that wrote it and
work with him to fix it... and she/he _will_ fix it, its his/her job.
With any Linux distribution you don't have that confidence, you don't
have that ability. I'm not saying they can't solve the problem, but
having a corperation like Sun supply the operating system does have its
advantages... and of course, the same can be said for any corperation
that wrote its own OS, be it HP-UX, IRIX or AIX, but thats security that
Red Hat can't provide.
... okey, I can go on and on and on, but we'll have this discussion
some time over beers, but you get the general idea. My closing line
with people that looked confused and worn down by all the diffrent
solutions was that all this (point around the room) is really supposed
to be about choice, YOUR choice, and what Sun offers is another choice,
and we think a better choice, but before you make your decision, just
please give Sun a call, and have a 5 minute talk and get a quote,
nothing more, and just compare, if for nothing but due dilegance,
because I see so many people who regret moving to RHEL, just know what
your getting into and the alternatives, whether thats Sun or IBM or Red
Hat, so that you can be happy. Because being happy is what this is all
suppose to be about, to me anyway.
And, if it makes you feel better, I don't know why I have to mention
it, but the guys from Scyld and Gentoo spent a lot of time hanging out
with me at the booth too, very kool guys, I know several and we had a
great time. Some guys from Penguin Computing came over too.
Look, if you think LinuxWorld is about "Linux", you've never gone.
Its not. It was once, but that all ended long ago. Now its about
business. Real open source projects have to beg and pleed to get a
booth at the show and only a handful are provided (at the Enlightenment
project we tried but they filled up on the first day or application, we
called in the afternoon). If you don't work for a company no one there
will even talk to you, and thats not what open source is about. And,
furthermore, have you looked at the show line up at LinuxWorld? How
many have anything to do with Linux? Now, remember, Linux is a
kernel... answer, very very few, and most of those aren't associated
with a company and stuffed into .Org Pavillion. HP, IBM, Intel, AMD,
Oracle, Sybase, SGI... they aren't there to pump up Linux, they are
there to sell servers. The res***f the companies are there pushing Open
Source projects that are company funded or based... and OpenSolaris is
just such a project. It should really be cause Open Source World or
something. NetBSD and others were there too. Were they invading? A
good friend of mine is even the guy in the BSD Beastie suit who goes
around the show every year... is he invading?
If your upset that OpenSolaris was at LinuxWorld then put the blame on
me personally. I ******* one to push (look at the archives) to have us
there while others said we shouldn't. I think it was the right thing to
do and people benifited and enjoyed seeing what OpenSolaris had to
offer. I wasn't there to "convert" anyone. I was there to show them
what Solaris has to offer... and I, not being a Sun employee and also
being a long time Linux developer and community member, am far better
equipted to have that discussion than anyone from Sun. Furthermore, I'm
also a customer... if my servers crash at 3am I don't sleep, if they
can't be fixed quickly I loose my job... thats important, thats imporant
to my family, thats something that really matters to my employeer, to my
coworkers, to me, and to my family, and Solaris is what I, personally,
choose to deploy on, because thats what Sun does, thats what Sun has
always done. Customers at LinuxWorld are being told from ever corner
that they have to switch to Linux or be stuck in proprietary hell, I'm
telling them to just catch their breath and realize that its their
choice, and there are some good options, and personally I think better
options, out there, and they at least should take a look, and it won't
cost them a dime to try it.
Please feel free to talk to ANYONE that I spoke with at LinuxWorld and
find someone that was told to convert or that Linux sucks. I've been
working my *** off to build a bridge here because I personally live in
both worlds and its really damned important to me. I've got a long long
history, feel free to investigate it. And if you live in the bay area,
which I highly doubt, let me know because I'd love to buy you a beer and
talk this out. This is a really hard discussion to have in email.
benr.
(PS: I'm really tired, but thought I needed to respond to this ASAP, so
if I got something wrong or made a ******* typo above please give me an
inch or two. Thanks.)
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Posts:
3
From:
Registered:
8/12/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 14, 2005 6:41 PM
in response to: benr
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I wasn't putting words in your mouth - your original post speaks for
itself. It did not reflect your new comments on Linux and seemed a bit
irresponsible whether you intended it to or not.
Also, Linux is not just Red Hat's business. There are many companies
out there not using Red Hat - with Linux, companies get to choose
multiple commercial/non distributions from different vendors. If
companies don't mind paying Red Hat's fees at that level of support,
they have many other options available to them. LinuxWorld may be
"business" but most companies at LinuxWorld are highlighting their
Linux products... Last I checked Sun was supporting Linux equal to its
support of Solaris.
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Posts:
689
From:
GB
Registered:
5/18/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 14, 2005 7:16 PM
in response to: benr
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On Aug 13, 2005, at 01:41, Ben Rockwood wrote:
> Well, LinuxWorld is over. Here's the wrap up as it applies to
> OpenSolaris marketing and evangelism.
<snip />
If you'd like to see Ben in action, check out
http://www.flickr.com/photos/webmink/33975966/
S.
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Posts:
3,835
From:
JP
Registered:
4/6/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 15, 2005 4:15 PM
in response to: webmink
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Simon Phipps wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2005, at 01:41, Ben Rockwood wrote:
>
>> Well, LinuxWorld is over. Here's the wrap up as it applies to
>> OpenSolaris marketing and evangelism.
>
> <snip />
>
> If you'd like to see Ben in action, check out
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/webmink/33975966/
>
> S.
Love the pic, Simon.
I spent some time with Ben in the booth, and I'd like to thank him for
his participation. Ben probably spent more time talking OpenSolaris than
any of us, and he brought his own stuff to demo, too. He had quite a
crowd around him, I'd say. There were many times when people really
needed to here something from a non-Sun community member. I think we
should have non-Sun people in the booth talking OpenSolaris more often.
Sun and non-Sun community members should mix rather freely. It shouldn't
matter, really.
Thanks, Ben.
Jim
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Posts:
1,091
From:
CA
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 15, 2005 4:33 PM
in response to: jimgris
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005, Jim Grisanzio wrote:
> crowd around him, I'd say. There were many times when people really
> needed to here something from a non-Sun community member. I think we
> should have non-Sun people in the booth talking OpenSolaris more often.
Couldn't agree more. I think one problem (certainly for me, and I'd have
loved to have gone to LW) is getting time off from one's "day job".
> Sun and non-Sun community members should mix rather freely. It shouldn't
> matter, really.
>
> Thanks, Ben.
+1
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
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Posts:
807
From:
US
Registered:
3/9/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 16, 2005 1:16 AM
in response to: jimgris
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> I spent some time with Ben in the booth, and I'd like
> to thank him for his participation. Ben probably spent more time
> talking OpenSolaris than any of us, and he brought his own stuff
> to demo, too.
I was in the booth on Tuesday, when things were pretty crazy-- no
DVDs, crazy people everywhere. I've done a number of shows but
LW2005 was by far the most chaotic. That's the nature of the trenches.
Ben did a great job, worked tirelessly, and was super cool at all times.
Thanks Ben; I was impressed by the openminded attitude (or at least
politeness) of attendees the show-- in contrast with certain executives
who gave talks. Anyway, no one I met expressed any hostility at the
OpenSolaris project presence. Surprise (You open sourced it?) was
probably the most common reaction.
I'd encourage the marketing community to put together an "OpenSolaris
Facts Sheet" which could be distributable at such events. Here are the
questions I answered over and over again:
- Yes, it is open source now. The launch was June 14, 2005.
- OpenSolaris is a codebase. Similar to how the Linux kernel which Linus releases is a codebase.
- Other people take the OpenSolaris code plus other stuff, and assemble it into distributions.
- We made an earnest attempt to be "not broken" in our approach to open sourcing the OS.
- The license is called "CDDL." It's derived from the Mozilla Public License ("MPL"). It is truly Open Source (OSI approved).
- All of the code is at www.opensolaris.org; you can get it via bittorrent, http download, or just browse online.
- We made a really cool source code browser and search engine.
- The OpenSolaris code is advanced *beyond* what is in Solaris 10.
Why a fact sheet? Because people at shows are overloaded with information. A takeaway document means that they'll revisit the information later, share it with a friend, etc.
A final thought is that opensolaris.org might consider hosting itself in the ".org" section of the conference
next year. Things there seemed a little more chilled out, and perhaps more conducive to extended conversations.
-dp
--
Daniel Price -- Solaris Kernel Engineering -- http://blogs.sun.com/dp
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Posts:
651
From:
Registered:
5/25/05
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Re: Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 16, 2005 6:03 AM
in response to: dp
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Great input. Thanks. I'll figure out a way to present this information.
Sara
Daniel B. Price wrote:
<pre wrap="">I spent some time with Ben in the booth, and I'd like
to thank him for his participation. Ben probably spent more time
talking OpenSolaris than any of us, and he brought his own stuff
to demo, too.
</pre>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I was in the booth on Tuesday, when things were pretty crazy-- no
DVDs, crazy people everywhere. I've done a number of shows but
LW2005 was by far the most chaotic. That's the nature of the trenches.
Ben did a great job, worked tirelessly, and was super cool at all times.
Thanks Ben; I was impressed by the openminded attitude (or at least
politeness) of attendees the show-- in contrast with certain executives
who gave talks. Anyway, no one I met expressed any hostility at the
OpenSolaris project presence. Surprise (You open sourced it?) was
probably the most common reaction.
I'd encourage the marketing community to put together an "OpenSolaris
Facts Sheet" which could be distributable at such events. Here are the
questions I answered over and over again:
- Yes, it is open source now. The launch was June 14, 2005.
- OpenSolaris is a codebase. Similar to how the Linux kernel which Linus releases is a codebase.
- Other people take the OpenSolaris code plus other stuff, and assemble it into distributions.
- We made an earnest attempt to be "not broken" in our approach to open sourcing the OS.
- The license is called "CDDL." It's derived from the Mozilla Public License ("MPL"). It is truly Open Source (OSI approved).
- All of the code is at www.opensolaris.org; you can get it via bittorrent, http download, or just browse online.
- We made a really cool source code browser and search engine.
- The OpenSolaris code is advanced *beyond* what is in Solaris 10.
Why a fact sheet? Because people at shows are overloaded with information. A takeaway document means that they'll revisit the information later, share it with a friend, etc.
A final thought is that opensolaris.org might consider hosting itself in the ".org" section of the conference
next year. Things there seemed a little more chilled out, and perhaps more conducive to extended conversations.
-dp
--
Daniel Price -- Solaris Kernel Engineering -- http://blogs.sun.com/dp
This message posted from opensolaris.org
_______________________________________________
opensolaris-mktg mailing list
opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris dot org
</pre>
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Posts:
917
From:
Registered:
4/28/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 16, 2005 12:43 PM
in response to: dp
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I agree Dan, a handout would have been really really useful. The most common question we got asked as also the toughest to answer: "Whats new in Solaris?" The person you were talking to would expect the normal boring short list of "We improved... and added..." but of course its not that easy.
Most people were simply overwhelmed, which is why I tried to keep things really loose and fairly high level with some quick "See? It really works." demos without getting into details beyond what they were comfortable with. The best tact being to leave the attendees with a sense that they really do need to check this out when they get home.
A .Org booth wasn't possible this year, we were just too late (I'd already applied for an Enlightenment booth and been denied, they filled up on day 1, we tried on day 2). It wouldn't have been a good place for us this year anyway. We need more distros and visability prior to moving in with the .Org booths where we definately would have gotten a "Why are you here?" reaction. Being in the middle of the Sun booth allowed us to work on all fronts, bringing in the workstation lines, server lines, Studio compilers, OpenSolaris.org, Solaris10, etc. Besides, there is already some minor hostility aimed at Fedora Core, who has a booth in .Org pavillion despite being tied to Red Hat, which means they consume a booth that some other project could have used and they could have been a pod in the RH booth... they end up appearing like RH rejects.
LW Boston will be an interesting test next time around. We'll have to see who we can get in the area to show up and see what responce is like, but thats a good ways off (Apr 06).
benr.
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Posts:
329
From:
US
Registered:
6/7/05
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Re: Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 16, 2005 1:15 PM
in response to: benr
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LinuxWorld Boston is a good ways off, but the Call-for-Papers deadline
is not so far away...October 21, 2005. So, check out
http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/speakers//callforpapers
If you decide to submit a paper, it would be great if you could let us
all know on this list.
T
Ben Rockwood wrote:
> I agree Dan, a handout would have been really really useful. The most common question we got asked as also the toughest to answer: "Whats new in Solaris?" The person you were talking to would expect the normal boring short list of "We improved... and added..." but of course its not that easy.
> Most people were simply overwhelmed, which is why I tried to keep things really loose and fairly high level with some quick "See? It really works." demos without getting into details beyond what they were comfortable with. The best tact being to leave the attendees with a sense that they really do need to check this out when they get home.
>
> A .Org booth wasn't possible this year, we were just too late (I'd already applied for an Enlightenment booth and been denied, they filled up on day 1, we tried on day 2). It wouldn't have been a good place for us this year anyway. We need more distros and visability prior to moving in with the .Org booths where we definately would have gotten a "Why are you here?" reaction. Being in the middle of the Sun booth allowed us to work on all fronts, bringing in the workstation lines, server lines, Studio compilers, OpenSolaris.org, Solaris10, etc. Besides, there is already some minor hostility aimed at Fedora Core, who has a booth in .Org pavillion despite being tied to Red Hat, which means they consume a booth that some other project could have used and they could have been a pod in the RH booth... they end up appearing like RH rejects.
>
> LW Boston will be an interesting test next time around. We'll have to see who we can get in the area to show up and see what responce is like, but thats a good ways off (Apr 06).
>
> benr.
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> opensolaris-mktg mailing list
> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris dot org
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
651
From:
Registered:
5/25/05
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Re: LinuxWorld Report
Posted:
Aug 16, 2005 6:14 AM
in response to: benr
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Ben - THANKS!
This is the best show report I've read in ages. You did an amazing job
of evangelizing Solaris and OpenSolaris. Sounds like we need more DVDs
next time - and kilts are required attire.
Sara
Ben Rockwood wrote:
> Well, LinuxWorld is over. Here's the wrap up as it applies to
> OpenSolaris marketing and evangelism.
>
> On Tues the booth was manned by Stephen Lau, Dan Price, Eric Schrock,
> Derek Cicero and myself.
> On Wed it was Stephen and myself.
> On Thurs it was Jim and myself.
>
> Booth attendance was exceptional. We only had two problems to speak
> of, we didn't have enough DVDs and dehydration. During all three days
> we never went more than 5 minutes without talking to someone, and in
> fact an overwhelming amount of the time we were talking to 3 or more
> people at a time, which is remarkable given that we were somewhat
> buried in the middle of the booth.
>
> Demo's tended to revolve around DTrace, Zones and SMF. Having a
> non-Sun system there (mine) proved exceptionally useful in
> illustrating the massively improved driver support in Solaris10.
> Having DVDs on hand (although not nearly enough) was enough to blow
> the minds of several attendees. Providing the source, access to the
> online source browser, access to developers via the communities, and
> free access to Sun Studio also perked up a lot of ears.
>
> Folks coming to the booth fell into 4 categories:
>
> 1) Leeches: People who didn't run Solaris... didn't run Linux... I
> think were homeless, and just came with their hands out (literally) or
> simply grabbed goodies off the cabnet if I forgot to put them away.
> Some very bold people. It didn't help much that each pod had Puzzle
> peices that attendees were supposed to collect to get stuff, and lots
> of people only wanted the piece. In some small number of cases I used
> the puzzle peices to my advantage, but often they just interupted
> truely interested people.
>
> 2) Long time Solaris shops: These users had Sun systems and Solaris
> deployeed already and loved them, but were migrating to Linux
> (generally RHEL) due to cost. These were my favorite folks. The
> first part of the discussion was almost a confessional, where they
> whispered that they hated Linux and so far have just had massive
> problems with reliability and the support was terrible if they could
> get it at all. They were desprate and hurting... hurting bad. Just
> having someone to talk to that understood their problems seemed to
> really help them quite a lot. Then we would start talking about
> features in Solaris10, since most of them had Solaris8 or older
> deployed. They were blown away. Then things would come back to
> cost... they knew that the Sun TCO was lower than RHEL, but they
> couldn't convince their powers-that-be... so I'd put a Solaris DVD in
> their hand and tell them that they were free to run it in production,
> no strings, no BS, call us when you'd like a support contract. At
> that point some of them almost started crying. It was great. I
> talked to one guy that had RHEL deployeed, couldn't tolerate the
> reliablity problems they were having, and were paying more than
> $22,000 for support... and that didn't include priority phone support,
> just access to the Red Hat Network. I talked to a gentleman at
> Siemen's who was desprate to stay with Sun and really left ready to
> fight. I had almost two dozen people like this.
>
> 3) Folks that knew of Solaris, used it here or there, but needed
> convincing: These users either had some Sun system deployeed or had
> played around with it to varying degrees. For these people we just
> start talking about features that they don't have anywhere else, talk
> about standards, about portability, debunk all this "only on linux"
> BS, talk about reliability and scaliblity, talk about driver support,
> storage functionality, development tools, what OpenSolaris gives them,
> Sun support, Ultra20's, SunFire's and Niagra, Sun's partners. I'd
> tend to start with "Let me show you something kool." and go from
> there. Lots of "wow" and "thats kool!" whispers were heard. And
> these guys were fun because I just kept the kool stuff train
> a-rollin'. SMF blew minds. DTrace wow'ed people. Zones got people
> thinking of new possibilities. Again, with these people when I'd get
> to a point where they were literally speechless I'd pull out a DVD and
> put it in their hands and say "There you go. All that we've just
> talked about, there it is, in your hands." and they'd just be blown
> away. About the only thing at that point they could ask was "How is
> Sun going to make money?" And I had an answer for that too.
> 4) Open source developers: Enlightenment was a good draw from the
> real geeks in the crowd. They'd walk by and see my desktop and become
> interested. They'd get close and get excited when they saw it. (a
> good amount of the hardcore open source crowd has been waiting for
> Enlightenment 17 for years... seeing it running on OpenSolaris wasn't
> something they expected). With these guys I had instant credability
> and we started talking about choices, and that OpenSolaris was an
> amazing choice, and then we'd talk about the code, the tools, Sun
> Studio, Ultra20's, etc. With these guys we got to talk about some of
> the other killer features most enterprise folks don't care about like
> GRUB and being able to smoothly dual boot Linux, BSD, or whatever they
> wanted. All of these guys left with information they didn't
> previously have and weren't looking for, but were excited to get home
> and check it out for themselves.
>
>
> So, things went, all-in-all, really well. We didn't really have any
> trouble makers, just lots of leechers. A couple of times the puzzle
> peices helped me engage a user that didn't even want to think about
> Sun (but wanted the shirt) and I was able to make an impression on
> them. If I thought they looked sensable I'd hold the puzzle peice in
> front of them firmly and start asking questions... they didn't want to
> listen, but I made sure they got some facts before the went on their
> way. Some of these turned into case #3 above, others just grinned and
> nodded untill I released the puzzle peice to them.
> I had three aces up my sleeve: 1) the kilt drew interest. 2)
> showing off a non-Sun workation running something other than JDS that
> was used for real open source development appealed to people and show
> the versility of Solaris. 3) people loved the candor. If someone
> wanted to badmouth Sun I'd give them 2 or 3 more that they hadn't
> heard of and then straighted them out. If they felt that something
> wasn't implemented well in the past (like Solaris 8 sucking on X86) I
> shared their pain, appologiesed, and then showed them what we'd done
> to fix it. Just being natural and unstuffy was welcome to just about
> everyone.
>
> BOF attendance was poor. We really should have had handouts or
> fliers. Next time I do something like this I'm going to have to
> remember to at least bring post-it notes or something... we were just
> writting things down for people on the back of the puzzle pieces. We
> had a handful of people at the BOF but every other BOF did too. I
> think people by-and-large were just worn out and hungry. Tues is
> typically (and was this year) the biggest day of the show. Never the
> less, those that were there left interested and eager. Several of
> them came back to the booth in the following days to talk some more.
>
>
> There is my report. Let me know if anyone needs further information
> or anything.
> benr.
> _______________________________________________
> opensolaris-mktg mailing list
> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris dot org
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