|
Replies:
10
-
Last Post:
Jul 20, 2007 3:56 PM
by: dduvall
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Brief (blogged) thoughts on packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 2:22 PM
|
|
Danek and I have been poking around at packaging the last little
while; I've written down many of the issues we're juggling in a blog
post:
http://blogs.sun.com/sch/entry/observations_on_packaging
There's more to write, of course, and I hope to get the rest of my
notes out in some readable form--but feel free to send criticism,
ideas, etc. (For now, I'd like to pursue the technical discussion in
the Install CG, but we'll try to monitor both aliases.)
Cheers
Stephen
--
sch at sun dot com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
Posts:
3,657
From:
DE
Registered:
6/16/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on
packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 2:39 PM
in response to: Stephen Hahn
|
|
Stephen Hahn wrote:
>
> Danek and I have been poking around at packaging the last little
> while; I've written down many of the issues we're juggling in a blog
> post:
>
> http://blogs.sun.com/sch/entry/observations_on_packaging
AFAIK one item is missing:
- The packaging system should work with diskless and/or networked
clients, e.g. clients which get all filesystems (even the root
filesystem) via NFS or AFS/DFS (this feature is very important for
universities or large custers).
----
Bye,
Roland
--
__ . . __
(o.\ \/ /.o) roland dot mainz at nrubsig dot org
\__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer
/O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090
(;O/ \/ \O;)
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
42
From:
Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on
packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 3:15 PM
in response to: gisburn
|
|
|
|
> Stephen Hahn wrote:
> >
> > Danek and I have been poking around at packaging the last little
> > while; I've written down many of the issues we're juggling in a blog
> > post:
> >
> > http://blogs.sun.com/sch/entry/observations_on_packaging
Could you also include features presented in Solaris Package Companion,
"http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/svr4_packaging/package_companion/",
onto the mix.
Specifically, having Cluster <-> MetaCluster <-> Package relations and
dependencies is needed.
Cheers,
Joel.
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
1,253
From:
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on
packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 3:26 PM
in response to: jbuckley
|
|
On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 04:15:37PM -0600, Joel Buckley wrote:
> Could you also include features presented in Solaris Package Companion,
> "http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/svr4_packaging/package_companion/",
> onto the mix.
>
> Specifically, having Cluster <-> MetaCluster <-> Package relations and
> dependencies is needed.
Yes. We haven't implemented package incorporations yet, but you'll have
the ability to have hierarchical nesting of packages to an arbitrary level,
if you so choose (and be able to walk both up and down the tree).
Danek
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
1,674
From:
Registered:
7/15/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on packaging
Posted:
Jul 20, 2007 3:28 PM
in response to: dduvall
To: Communities » install » discuss
|
|
> > Specifically, having Cluster <-> MetaCluster <->
> Package relations and
> > dependencies is needed.
>
> Yes. We haven't implemented package incorporations
> yet, but you'll have
> the ability to have hierarchical nesting of packages
> to an arbitrary level,
> if you so choose (and be able to walk both up and
> down the tree).
What about specifying "default" suproducts/subsystems "marked for installation"?
Will there be either the ability to specify subproduct/subsystem installation order, or will the packaging system be intelligent enough to automatically "mark for install" all products that product(s) chosen for installation depend on?
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
1,674
From:
Registered:
7/15/05
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
1,253
From:
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on
packaging
Posted:
Jul 20, 2007 3:56 PM
in response to: ux-admin
|
|
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 03:28:51PM -0700, UNIX admin wrote:
> What about specifying "default" suproducts/subsystems "marked for installation"?
>
> Will there be either the ability to specify subproduct/subsystem
> installation order, or will the packaging system be intelligent enough to
> automatically "mark for install" all products that product(s) chosen for
> installation depend on?
I'm not quite sure what you're asking. In particular, I don't understand
what you mean by "subproduct" or "subsystem"; we just have packages. If
you're asking whether all required dependencies for any explicitly
requested packages will be installed, then yes, they will.
That is, if, say, "application/cat" depends on "library/libc", and
"library/libc" is not installed, then when you attempt to install
"application/cat", the system will see that dependency, retrieve and
install "library/libc" first, and refuse to install "application/cat" if
"library/libc" failed to install.
Danek
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
1,253
From:
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on
packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 3:24 PM
in response to: gisburn
|
|
On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 11:39:11PM +0200, Roland Mainz wrote:
> AFAIK one item is missing:
> - The packaging system should work with diskless and/or networked
> clients, e.g. clients which get all filesystems (even the root
> filesystem) via NFS or AFS/DFS (this feature is very important for
> universities or large custers).
I believe that's one of the things Stephen meant with
2. Virtualized systems. As long or longer, we've supported the notion of
diskless systems, where the installed image is shared out, in portions,
between multiple running environments. Zones was a direct evolutionary
successor of the diskless environments, and shows that this approach
can lead to some very economical deployment models. Lower-level
virtualization methods can also benefit from the administrative
precision that comes out of sharing known portions of the installation
image.
in "Old" inputs.
Danek
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
3,657
From:
DE
Registered:
6/16/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughtson
packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 3:42 PM
in response to: dduvall
|
|
Danek Duvall wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 11:39:11PM +0200, Roland Mainz wrote:
> > AFAIK one item is missing:
> > - The packaging system should work with diskless and/or networked
> > clients, e.g. clients which get all filesystems (even the root
> > filesystem) via NFS or AFS/DFS (this feature is very important for
> > universities or large custers).
>
> I believe that's one of the things Stephen meant with
>
> 2. Virtualized systems. As long or longer, we've supported the notion of
> diskless systems, where the installed image is shared out, in portions,
> between multiple running environments. Zones was a direct evolutionary
> successor of the diskless environments, and shows that this approach
> can lead to some very economical deployment models. Lower-level
> virtualization methods can also benefit from the administrative
> precision that comes out of sharing known portions of the installation
> image.
>
> in "Old" inputs.
Erm... but my comment was not only about "virtualised" systems - it's
more a "generic" reminder to keep the packaging system
filesystem-neutral that it works even on NFS or AFS/DFS without
problems. I know that ZFS is "hip and cool" - but that doesn't mean it
will be best solution in all cases or in solve the issues we may have in
twenty years (as an off-topic example: Each time the i18n people come up
with the comment that everyone should use Unicode I remeber that twenty
years ago the i18n experts thought that ISO2022 is "hip and cool" and
everyone should use it exclusively. Every decade has it's own cool stuff
but IMO APIs should be designed at a generic level (for example take a
look at the POSIX widechar API which covers ISO2022, Unicode, GB18030,
Tron etc. - it works with all encodings and locales from almost two
decades and will likely continue to support even newer stuff in the
following decade. A good counter-example is X11's switch from
COMPOUND_TEXT (which was encoding/locale "neutral" and _extensible_) to
UTF8 strings (which is Unicode-specific and causes serious headaches for
cases like the Han-unification and other areas)) and IMO the same should
apply to the packaging stuff in Solaris).
----
Bye,
Roland
--
__ . . __
(o.\ \/ /.o) roland dot mainz at nrubsig dot org
\__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer
/O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090
(;O/ \/ \O;)
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Bray
Tim.Bray@Sun.COM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: [indiana-discuss] Brief (blogged) thoughts on
packaging
Posted:
Jul 19, 2007 4:43 PM
in response to: Tim Bray
|
|
* Tim Bray <Tim dot Bray at Sun dot COM> [2007-07-19 15:19]:
> On Jul 19, 2007, at 2:22 PM, Stephen Hahn wrote:
>
> >
> > Danek and I have been poking around at packaging the last little
> > while; I've written down many of the issues we're juggling in a
> >blog
> > post:
> >
> > http://blogs.sun.com/sch/entry/observations_on_packaging
>
> Good stuff! We going to see a prototype soon? -T
There is a fair bit of code, but it's not yet a complete
prototype--bits already fly around and end up on disk in an
orchestrated fashion, however. I need to take write about the
controversial aspects (also known as "the design"), take an overdue
vacation (coincidence?), and then we'll ask for some project space and
get the discussions and source out there.
- Stephen
--
sch at sun dot com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/
_______________________________________________
install-discuss mailing list
install-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
|
|
|
|
|
