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Replies:
37
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Last Post:
Dec 13, 2007 4:42 PM
by: cheeney
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Jan Senolt
senoltj@centrum.cz
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Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Nov 30, 2007 7:28 AM
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Hello,
I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability capabilites for OpenSolaris.
Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support from logging can be added later.
This project will be initiated by Jan Senolt.
This project is based on public documentation of ext2 only and the code will be released under CDDL license.
This project will be associated with the Storege Community. The proposed leaders will be Jan Senolt.
Best regards
Jan Senolt
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Posts:
109
From:
Registered:
4/21/07
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Nov 30, 2007 9:01 AM
in response to: Jan Senolt
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+1
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:28
AM
Subject: [storage-discuss] Ext2fs project
proposal
Hello,
I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project
called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability
capabilites for OpenSolaris.
Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended
Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another
operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its
successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with
ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support
from logging can be added later.
This project will be initiated by Jan
Senolt.
This project is based on public documentation of ext2 only and
the code will be released under CDDL license.
This project will be
associated with the Storege Community. The proposed leaders will be Jan
Senolt.
Best regards
Jan
Senolt
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Posts:
161
From:
US
Registered:
5/25/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Nov 30, 2007 3:32 PM
in response to: Jan Senolt
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On 11/30/07 08:28, Jan Senolt wrote:
> Hello,
> I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability capabilites for OpenSolaris.
>
This seems like a great addition to the growing list of file systems in
OpenSolaris!
+1
I would suggest this proposal be open for discussion and vote until 14-Dec.
--jc
> Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support from logging can be added later.
>
> This project will be initiated by Jan Senolt.
>
> This project is based on public documentation of ext2 only and the code will be released under CDDL license.
>
> This project will be associated with the Storege Community. The proposed leaders will be Jan Senolt.
>
> Best regards
> Jan Senolt
>
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
>
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Posts:
358
From:
CA
Registered:
2/26/07
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Nov 30, 2007 6:27 PM
in response to: Jan Senolt
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Jan Senolt wrote:
> Hello,
> I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability capabilites for OpenSolaris.
>
> Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support from logging can be added later.
>
> This project will be initiated by Jan Senolt.
>
> This project is based on public documentation of ext2 only and the code will be released under CDDL license.
>
> This project will be associated with the Storege Community. The proposed leaders will be Jan Senolt.
I would recommend that, at a minimum, this proposal include
journaling. Some form of journaling or enhanced data
integrity guarantee is pretty much a requirement for file
systems now.
If you include journaling during the initial implementation,
it will almost certainly be easier (technically) and lower
risk than adding it later. And it avoids a potential
on-disk format change later, which is always a good thing.
Is the plan to support the creation of ext file systems,
which would require utilities to do so, or just to mount
and work on existing ext file systems?
Alan
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Posts:
581
From:
CZ
Registered:
3/21/06
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 1, 2007 12:21 AM
in response to: wright
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Hi Alan,
Alan M Wright píše v pá 30. 11. 2007 v 18:27 -0800:
> Jan Senolt wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability capabilites for OpenSolaris.
> >
> > Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support from logging can be added later.
> >
> > This project will be initiated by Jan Senolt.
> >
> > This project is based on public documentation of ext2 only and the code will be released under CDDL license.
> >
> > This project will be associated with the Storege Community. The proposed leaders will be Jan Senolt.
>
> I would recommend that, at a minimum, this proposal include
> journaling. Some form of journaling or enhanced data
> integrity guarantee is pretty much a requirement for file
> systems now.
>
> If you include journaling during the initial implementation,
> it will almost certainly be easier (technically) and lower
> risk than adding it later. And it avoids a potential
> on-disk format change later, which is always a good thing.
>
ext3 as successor of ext2 didn't change on-disk format a lot, it is even
possible to force mounting of ext3 as ext2. And future fork to ext3 is
only depending on brain&manpower :-)
> Is the plan to support the creation of ext file systems,
> which would require utilities to do so, or just to mount
> and work on existing ext file systems?
>
As supervisor of the master thesis I requested only filesystem driver
and mount utility. If somebody will need mkext2fs and fsck.ext2, he
could recompile needed GNU utilities for it probably.
Best regards,
Milan
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Jan Senolt
senoltj@centrum.cz
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 2, 2007 3:38 AM
in response to: jurikm
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Hi,
>> I would recommend that, at a minimum, this proposal include
>> journaling. Some form of journaling or enhanced data
>> integrity guarantee is pretty much a requirement for file
>> systems now.
>>
>> If you include journaling during the initial implementation,
>> it will almost certainly be easier (technically) and lower
>> risk than adding it later. And it avoids a potential
>> on-disk format change later, which is always a good thing.
>>
>
>ext3 as successor of ext2 didn't change on-disk format a lot, it is even
>possible to force mounting of ext3 as ext2. And future fork to ext3 is
>only depending on brain&manpower :-)
>
I agree.
>>
>> Is the plan to support the creation of ext file systems,
>> which would require utilities to do so, or just to mount
>> and work on existing ext file systems?
>>
>
>As supervisor of the master thesis I requested only filesystem driver
>and mount utility. If somebody will need mkext2fs and fsck.ext2, he
>could recompile needed GNU utilities for it probably.
>
GNU e2fsprogs can be compiled right now (by gcc or by Sun cc).
Best regards,
Honza
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Posts:
453
From:
US
Registered:
12/21/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 2, 2007 11:35 PM
in response to: jurikm
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Milan Jurik wrote:
> Hi Alan,
>
> Alan M Wright pÃÅ¡e v pá 30. 11. 2007 v 18:27 -0800:
>
>> I would recommend that, at a minimum, this proposal include
>> journaling. Some form of journaling or enhanced data
>> integrity guarantee is pretty much a requirement for file
>> systems now.
>>
>> If you include journaling during the initial implementation,
>> it will almost certainly be easier (technically) and lower
>> risk than adding it later. And it avoids a potential
>> on-disk format change later, which is always a good thing.
>>
>>
>
> ext3 as successor of ext2 didn't change on-disk format a lot, it is even
> possible to force mounting of ext3 as ext2. And future fork to ext3 is
> only depending on brain&manpower :-)
>
>
>> Is the plan to support the creation of ext file systems,
>> which would require utilities to do so, or just to mount
>> and work on existing ext file systems?
>>
>>
>
> As supervisor of the master thesis I requested only filesystem driver
> and mount utility. If somebody will need mkext2fs and fsck.ext2, he
> could recompile needed GNU utilities for it probably.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Milan
>
>
Milan,
ext2 is a non-starter for me. It would be worse than comparing a FAT16 to
a NTFS port. At least some people use FAT16. I don't know of anyone who
used ext2.
So -1 as the project stands right now.
I would prefer to see a project proposal which is to do ext3 and the
creation
of ext file systems.
It doesn't have to be the case that your student needs to do ext3 and/or
these
file utilities. They can have the intermediate goal of getting ext2 up
and running.
And it may easily be the case that others will step up to do the remaining
work. Or you student may work on it after he graduates. In any event,
I much more prefer a forward looking project proposal than one with
a dead end.
I'm also interested in how we verify that the implementation is
clean-room and
not tainted with a different license. Hmm, it is okay for the utilities
to be
GNU, since they are outside of the kernel. But we really need to make sure
that the file system code is clean.
I believe that having ext3 available is an interoperability that we
want. It will
make it that much easier to have dual or triple boot systems. It will allow
different OSes to share things like home directories on a laptop.
Please modify the proposal to start us along the path of eventually getting
ext3 in place.
Thanks,
Tom
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Posts:
581
From:
CZ
Registered:
3/21/06
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 12:20 AM
in response to: tdh
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Hi Tom,
Tom Haynes píše v po 03. 12. 2007 v 01:35 -0600:
> Milan Jurik wrote:
> > Hi Alan,
> >
> > Alan M Wright pÃÅ¡e v pá 30. 11. 2007 v 18:27 -0800:
> >
> >> I would recommend that, at a minimum, this proposal include
> >> journaling. Some form of journaling or enhanced data
> >> integrity guarantee is pretty much a requirement for file
> >> systems now.
> >>
> >> If you include journaling during the initial implementation,
> >> it will almost certainly be easier (technically) and lower
> >> risk than adding it later. And it avoids a potential
> >> on-disk format change later, which is always a good thing.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ext3 as successor of ext2 didn't change on-disk format a lot, it is even
> > possible to force mounting of ext3 as ext2. And future fork to ext3 is
> > only depending on brain&manpower :-)
> >
> >
> >> Is the plan to support the creation of ext file systems,
> >> which would require utilities to do so, or just to mount
> >> and work on existing ext file systems?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > As supervisor of the master thesis I requested only filesystem driver
> > and mount utility. If somebody will need mkext2fs and fsck.ext2, he
> > could recompile needed GNU utilities for it probably.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Milan
> >
> >
>
> Milan,
>
> ext2 is a non-starter for me. It would be worse than comparing a FAT16 to
> a NTFS port. At least some people use FAT16. I don't know of anyone who
> used ext2.
>
> So -1 as the project stands right now.
>
> I would prefer to see a project proposal which is to do ext3 and the
> creation
> of ext file systems.
>
> It doesn't have to be the case that your student needs to do ext3 and/or
> these
> file utilities. They can have the intermediate goal of getting ext2 up
> and running.
>
If you look to history, you will see that ext3 started as ext2 by adding
journal support. The same source code, which was enhanced. Yes, the
source code diverged during last years, but you can still access ext3
partition with ext2 filesystem driver.
> And it may easily be the case that others will step up to do the remaining
> work. Or you student may work on it after he graduates. In any event,
> I much more prefer a forward looking project proposal than one with
> a dead end.
>
Actually, it is not dead end, from your point of view, it is first part.
And there are still many ext2 filesystems around and not everybody
depends on journalling, ext2 is still used in embedded devices.
I understand you want to enhance project proposal to ext3, but in that
case somebody, not Jan, should investigate:
a) if ext3 is documented enough (without studying ext3 Linux source
code)
b) if he has free time and will volunteer as the second project leader,
working on ext3 fork
> I'm also interested in how we verify that the implementation is
> clean-room and
> not tainted with a different license. Hmm, it is okay for the utilities
> to be
> GNU, since they are outside of the kernel. But we really need to make sure
> that the file system code is clean.
>
Yes, I'm aware of it. My request was to ignore Linux source code. To
verify that public documentation of ext2 is enough complete, Jan
implemented user space utility to access ext2 based on that info.
Before this project he hadn't ext2 Linux kernel code experience.
We should publish all documentation he has, to avoid license issue.
What else could be requested? I think this code will be codereview
heavily, so if somebody will claim his copyright on some part of code,
we could solve it.
> I believe that having ext3 available is an interoperability that we
> want. It will
> make it that much easier to have dual or triple boot systems. It will allow
> different OSes to share things like home directories on a laptop.
>
Sharing home directories between two OSes can be dangerous, because some
applications can be surprised that their configs are for other versions
of them.
I agree ext3 in OpenSolaris should be added, but not as part of ext2
project proposal, I explained my reasons.
> Please modify the proposal to start us along the path of eventually getting
> ext3 in place.
>
-1 for this modification request, till time a) and b) will not be
solved.
Best regards,
Milan
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Posts:
453
From:
US
Registered:
12/21/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 9:34 AM
in response to: jurikm
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Milan Jurik wrote:
> I agree ext3 in OpenSolaris should be added, but not as part of ext2
> project proposal, I explained my reasons.
>
>
>> Please modify the proposal to start us along the path of eventually getting
>> ext3 in place.
>>
>>
>
> -1 for this modification request, till time a) and b) will not be
> solved.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Milan
>
>
Milan,
I'm not saying that either you or your student has to deliver on ext3. The
only additional work I am seeking is to enlarge the proposal. At that point,
you can narrow your scope back down to work you are seeking to
do. The increased scope has more to do with a desire for the community
to grow outside of Sun than imposing additional work on you or your student.
I would be perfectly fine if you deliver on ext2 and the rest of the project
stalls. I wouldn't like it, but I would be okay with it. And this would not
be a reflection on anyone who delivered the ext2 milestone.
The reality of open source development is that developers have to be willing
to contribute. Up until recently in the storage community, all of the
projects have been internal to Sun. And there are several projects (NFS
Server in non-Global Zones - http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nfs-zones -
is a great example) which have languished because we couldn't
get external contributors interested.
I believe that if you can deliver on ext2, someone will step
up to do the rest of the work. I'd love to see this spark external
involvement and ownership.
If you want, I'd be willing to help flesh the proposal out and take
ownership of the post-ext2 stuff.
Thanks,
Tom
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Posts:
442
From:
US
Registered:
6/16/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 9:50 AM
in response to: tdh
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On Dec 3, 2007 11:34 AM, Tom Haynes <Thomas dot Haynes at sun dot com> wrote:
> I believe that if you can deliver on ext2, someone will step
> up to do the rest of the work. I'd love to see this spark external
> involvement and ownership.
>
> If you want, I'd be willing to help flesh the proposal out and take
> ownership of the post-ext2 stuff.
>
Tom,
FWIW, I'm interested in any post work necessary to take it to full
ext3. I'm committed to working on a few defects and RFE's in SMF at
the moment -- probably won't all be completed till after the new year.
I'm interested to find out how the clean room implementation is
intended -- I'm sure I'll learn as the project starts.
Can I synch with you after my SMF plate is clear?
Thanks,
Mark
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Posts:
453
From:
US
Registered:
12/21/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 10:22 AM
in response to: devnull
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Mark Martin wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> FWIW, I'm interested in any post work necessary to take it to full
> ext3. I'm committed to working on a few defects and RFE's in SMF at
> the moment -- probably won't all be completed till after the new year.
> I'm interested to find out how the clean room implementation is
> intended -- I'm sure I'll learn as the project starts.
>
> Can I synch with you after my SMF plate is clear?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
Mark,
Great, I knew this would pull people in. :->
Let's let Milan reply and work from there.
Tom
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Posts:
581
From:
CZ
Registered:
3/21/06
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 10:35 AM
in response to: tdh
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Hi Tom,
Tom Haynes píše v po 03. 12. 2007 v 12:22 -0600:
> Mark Martin wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > FWIW, I'm interested in any post work necessary to take it to full
> > ext3. I'm committed to working on a few defects and RFE's in SMF at
> > the moment -- probably won't all be completed till after the new year.
> > I'm interested to find out how the clean room implementation is
> > intended -- I'm sure I'll learn as the project starts.
> >
> > Can I synch with you after my SMF plate is clear?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
>
> Mark,
>
> Great, I knew this would pull people in. :->
>
> Let's let Milan reply and work from there.
>
OK, could you contact Jan directly and help him to upgrade the proposal,
please? It is his own work, I need only to control his enthusiasm, to
deliver ext2 for now, but I will not stop you, if you will "monitor" the
work :-)
Best regards,
Milan
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Posts:
453
From:
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Registered:
12/21/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 10:54 AM
in response to: jurikm
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>
> OK, could you contact Jan directly and help him to upgrade the proposal,
> please? It is his own work, I need only to control his enthusiasm, to
> deliver ext2 for now, but I will not stop you, if you will "monitor" the
> work :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Milan
>
>
>
Milan,
Sure, when the proposal times out, I'll work with Jan to get the project
documentation worded correctly.
Or does the community want to see the new proposal?
And to curb Jan, well the ext3 work can't start until the ext2 work is
putback. :->
Thanks,
Tom
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Posts:
161
From:
US
Registered:
5/25/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 8:16 PM
in response to: tdh
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Tom Haynes wrote:
>> OK, could you contact Jan directly and help him to upgrade the proposal,
>> please? It is his own work, I need only to control his enthusiasm, to
>> deliver ext2 for now, but I will not stop you, if you will "monitor" the
>> work :-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Milan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Milan,
>
> Sure, when the proposal times out, I'll work with Jan to get the project
> documentation worded correctly.
>
> Or does the community want to see the new proposal?
>
I think this would be great. Having a proposal that would remove your
"-1" would make it much easier to get approval.
I personally like seeing the community working toward common goals and a
revised proposal seems like a great start.
--jc
> And to curb Jan, well the ext3 work can't start until the ext2 work is
> putback. :->
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
>
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Posts:
2
From:
IN
Registered:
1/20/06
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 2:42 AM
in response to: jurikm
To: Communities » storage » discuss
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Also would it be much better porting JFS2, JFS3 to Solaris than just Porting an Subset of JFS2 or JFS3.
Would it feasible to give an account for whether there is an already existing Filesystem to build upon this particular port.
As far as the project proposal goes, It looks to be very primitive.
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Posts:
358
From:
CA
Registered:
2/26/07
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 1:00 AM
in response to: tdh
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Tom Haynes wrote:
> Milan Jurik wrote:
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Alan M Wright pÃÅ¡e v pá 30. 11. 2007 v 18:27 -0800:
>>> I would recommend that, at a minimum, this proposal include
>>> journaling. Some form of journaling or enhanced data
>>> integrity guarantee is pretty much a requirement for file
>>> systems now.
>>>
>>> If you include journaling during the initial implementation,
>>> it will almost certainly be easier (technically) and lower
>>> risk than adding it later. And it avoids a potential
>>> on-disk format change later, which is always a good thing.
>>
>> ext3 as successor of ext2 didn't change on-disk format a lot, it is even
>> possible to force mounting of ext3 as ext2. And future fork to ext3 is
>> only depending on brain&manpower :-)
>>
>>> Is the plan to support the creation of ext file systems,
>>> which would require utilities to do so, or just to mount
>>> and work on existing ext file systems?
>>
>> As supervisor of the master thesis I requested only filesystem driver
>> and mount utility. If somebody will need mkext2fs and fsck.ext2, he
>> could recompile needed GNU utilities for it probably.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Milan
>
> Milan,
>
> ext2 is a non-starter for me. It would be worse than comparing a FAT16 to
> a NTFS port. At least some people use FAT16. I don't know of anyone who
> used ext2.
> So -1 as the project stands right now.
>
> I would prefer to see a project proposal which is to do ext3 and the
> creation of ext file systems.
>
> It doesn't have to be the case that your student needs to do ext3 and/or
> these file utilities. They can have the intermediate goal of getting ext2
> up and running.
This is what I was trying to recommend.
> And it may easily be the case that others will step up to do the remaining
> work. Or you student may work on it after he graduates. In any event,
> I much more prefer a forward looking project proposal than one with
> a dead end.
>
> I'm also interested in how we verify that the implementation is clean-room
> and
> not tainted with a different license. Hmm, it is okay for the utilities to
> be
> GNU, since they are outside of the kernel. But we really need to make sure
> that the file system code is clean.
In Stephen's original implementation, ext3 file systems could be mounted
as ext2 and vice versa provided they had been unmounted cleanly,
which was nice for all sorts of reasons. This would suggest that having
the proposal be ext3 wouldn't preclude some work being done later,
however, this needs to be carefully thought out because one can't
borrow from the existing implementation.
Unless the extfs utilities have been cleaned up, there was a tight coupling
between them and the file system. If this is still the case, the utilties
would
also have to be written from scratch.
Alan
> I believe that having ext3 available is an interoperability that we want.
> It will
> make it that much easier to have dual or triple boot systems. It will
> allow
> different OSes to share things like home directories on a laptop.
>
> Please modify the proposal to start us along the path of eventually
> getting
> ext3 in place.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Nov 30, 2007 10:35 PM
in response to: Jan Senolt
|
|
On Nov 30, 2007 5:28 PM, Jan Senolt <senoltj at centrum dot cz> wrote:
> Hello,
> I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability capabilites for OpenSolaris.
>
> Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support from logging can be added later.
I assume that this project seeks providing some level of
interoperability with Linux.
If so I think targeting ext3 from the moment zero is essential, since
(AFAIK) it used
almost exclusively these days instead of ext2.
I think that providing ext3 capability in Solaris is an important step
toward broader/
easier Solaris penetration into traditional Linux turf. In fact when
I'm talking with Linux
people about trying Solaris I'm almost always asked "Will Solaris access my ext3
filesystem ?".
These is one important thing, however, to mention - very large amount of ext[23]
filesystems are deployed over LVM. So unless it is also supported in Solaris
accessing Linux ext[23] filesystem can be problematic.
So, +1 for this project proposal.
--
Regards,
Cyril
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Posts:
581
From:
CZ
Registered:
3/21/06
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 1, 2007 12:29 AM
in response to: imp
|
|
Hi Cyril,
Cyril Plisko píše v so 01. 12. 2007 v 08:35 +0200:
> On Nov 30, 2007 5:28 PM, Jan Senolt <senoltj at centrum dot cz> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext2 filesystem" providing ext2 filesystem interoperability capabilites for OpenSolaris.
> >
> > Ext2 filesystem (or Second Extended Filesystem) is the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and was ported to another operating systems too. Although ext2 is not a journaling file system, its successor, ext3, provides journaling and is almost completely compatible with ext2. The initial implementation will not perform logging from ext3. Support from logging can be added later.
>
>
> I assume that this project seeks providing some level of
> interoperability with Linux.
Exactly, for dual-boot machines as possible data sharing way, better
than pcfs.
> If so I think targeting ext3 from the moment zero is essential, since
> (AFAIK) it used
> almost exclusively these days instead of ext2.
> I think that providing ext3 capability in Solaris is an important step
> toward broader/
> easier Solaris penetration into traditional Linux turf. In fact when
> I'm talking with Linux
> people about trying Solaris I'm almost always asked "Will Solaris access my ext3
> filesystem ?".
>
With ext2 it could be possible. Not everytime, but still.
> These is one important thing, however, to mention - very large amount of ext[23]
> filesystems are deployed over LVM. So unless it is also supported in Solaris
> accessing Linux ext[23] filesystem can be problematic.
>
Yes, but the most of dual-boot machines are workstations and laptops.
Data migration on servers (typicall LVM users) is another story.
>
>
> So, +1 for this project proposal.
>
Best regards,
Milan
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 1, 2007 1:16 AM
in response to: jurikm
|
|
Hi Milan,
On Dec 1, 2007 10:29 AM, Milan Jurik <Milan dot Jurik at sun dot com> wrote:
>
> Yes, but the most of dual-boot machines are workstations and laptops.
> Data migration on servers (typicall LVM users) is another story.
Fedora and RHEL-based distributions creates LVM based layout
by default when installing. With many people running these distros
on their workstations and laptops I think LVM is rather more common
than not.
That said the lack of Linux LVM support in Solaris should in no way
stop ext[23] project.
--
Regards,
Cyril
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Posts:
581
From:
CZ
Registered:
3/21/06
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 1, 2007 1:24 AM
in response to: imp
|
|
Hi Cyril,
Cyril Plisko píše v so 01. 12. 2007 v 11:16 +0200:
> Hi Milan,
>
> On Dec 1, 2007 10:29 AM, Milan Jurik <Milan dot Jurik at sun dot com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, but the most of dual-boot machines are workstations and laptops.
> > Data migration on servers (typicall LVM users) is another story.
>
> Fedora and RHEL-based distributions creates LVM based layout
> by default when installing. With many people running these distros
> on their workstations and laptops I think LVM is rather more common
> than not.
>
OK, thank you for info :-(
> That said the lack of Linux LVM support in Solaris should in no way
> stop ext[23] project.
>
Thank you for your support :-)
Best regards,
Milan
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Posts:
112
From:
FR
Registered:
9/7/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 5:33 AM
in response to: Jan Senolt
To: Communities » storage » discuss
|
|
Hi
If anyone is interested, the read-only ext2 driver that I ported to Solaris 10 still works with OpenSolaris (at least with SXDE 09/07, I've had a report that it won't compile with build >~75 due to the removal of vold). Here's the link http://paulf.free.fr/software.html
A+
Paul
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Posts:
453
From:
US
Registered:
12/21/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 3, 2007 11:11 PM
in response to: pjfloyd
|
|
Paul Floyd wrote:
> Hi
>
> If anyone is interested, the read-only ext2 driver that I ported to Solaris 10 still works with OpenSolaris (at least with SXDE 09/07, I've had a report that it won't compile with build >~75 due to the removal of vold). Here's the link http://paulf.free.fr/software.html
>
> A+
> Paul
>
Paul,
The complication of a port is in the licensing of the code. I think the
rule of thumb is that
if it goes in the kernel, it can not be GPL. If it goes in userland, it
can be GPL.
So we need a clean implementation from specs to allow us to CDDL the
resulting code.
Thanks,
Tom
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Posts:
112
From:
FR
Registered:
9/7/05
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Re: Ext2fs project proposal
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 12:50 AM
in response to: tdh
|
|
Quoting Tom Haynes <Thomas dot Haynes at Sun dot COM>:
> Paul,
>
> The complication of a port is in the licensing of the code. I think the
> rule of thumb is that
> if it goes in the kernel, it can not be GPL. If it goes in userland, it
> can be GPL.
>
> So we need a clean implementation from specs to allow us to CDDL the
> resulting code.
Hi Tom
I didn't think that the code would be useable for a new project (other than what
is permitted by 'fair use'). In the meantime, it does offer an alternative, at
least for builds up to the removal of vold.
A+
Paul
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Posts:
453
From:
US
Registered:
12/21/05
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Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 8:44 AM
in response to: Jan Senolt
|
|
We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext3
filesystem"
providing ext3 filesystem interoperability capabilities for OpenSolaris.
The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is the standard
filesystem for GNU/Linux and
has been ported to other operating systems. It is a journaling
filesystem and is an extension of the
ext2 filesystem.
We intend to approach the project in two phases:
1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of ext2. This will allow
us to release the
filesystem under the CDDL license.
2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation of ext2. We will
add journaling at this
time.
The proposed leaders are:
Jan Senolt
Milan Jurik
Tom Haynes
Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the project and Tom will
lead the initiative for the second
phase of the project.
The project will be associated with the Storage Community.
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
|
|
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 8:54 AM
in response to: tdh
|
|
On Dec 4, 2007 6:44 PM, Tom Haynes <Thomas dot Haynes at sun dot com> wrote:
>
> We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext3
> filesystem"
> providing ext3 filesystem interoperability capabilities for OpenSolaris.
It sounds like we need to recast our votes.
Well, +1 to ext3 project :)
--
Regards,
Cyril
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Posts:
129
From:
US
Registered:
10/14/05
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 1:09 PM
in response to: tdh
To: Communities » storage » discuss
|
|
This sounds like a good resolution.
+1
We have a proposal and I'd like the Storage Core Contributors to vote on it.
The timeout on the voting process is 12/11/2007.
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Posts:
161
From:
US
Registered:
5/25/05
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM
in response to: tdh
|
|
Tom, Jan & Milan,
Thanks for resubmitting this proposal. I liked the original proposal and
I like this on even more. Therefore:
+1
Being this is a new proposal, the voting comment period will end on 11-Dec.
--jc
On 12/04/07 09:44, Tom Haynes wrote:
> We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext3
> filesystem"
> providing ext3 filesystem interoperability capabilities for OpenSolaris.
>
> The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is the standard
> filesystem for GNU/Linux and
> has been ported to other operating systems. It is a journaling
> filesystem and is an extension of the
> ext2 filesystem.
>
> We intend to approach the project in two phases:
>
> 1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of ext2. This will allow
> us to release the
> filesystem under the CDDL license.
>
> 2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation of ext2. We will
> add journaling at this
> time.
>
> The proposed leaders are:
> Jan Senolt
> Milan Jurik
> Tom Haynes
>
> Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the project and Tom will
> lead the initiative for the second
> phase of the project.
>
> The project will be associated with the Storage Community.
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
>
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Posts:
129
From:
US
Registered:
10/14/05
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|
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|
Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 8:32 PM
in response to: tdh
To: Communities » storage » discuss
|
|
This sounds like a good resolution.
+1
|
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Posts:
129
From:
US
Registered:
10/14/05
|
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|
|
Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 8:34 PM
in response to: tdh
To: Communities » storage » discuss
|
|
>
> We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project
> called "Ext3
> filesystem"
> providing ext3 filesystem interoperability
> capabilities for OpenSolaris.
>
> The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is
> the standard
> filesystem for GNU/Linux and
> has been ported to other operating systems. It is a
> journaling
> filesystem and is an extension of the
> ext2 filesystem.
>
> We intend to approach the project in two phases:
>
> 1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of
> ext2. This will allow
> us to release the
> filesystem under the CDDL license.
>
> 2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation
> of ext2. We will
> add journaling at this
> time.
>
> The proposed leaders are:
> Jan Senolt
> Milan Jurik
> Tom Haynes
>
> Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the
> project and Tom will
> lead the initiative for the second
> phase of the project.
>
> The project will be associated with the Storage
> Community.
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-d
> iscuss
This sounds like a good resolution.
+1
|
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Charles Baker
Charles.Baker@Sun.COM
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 8:37 PM
in response to: tdh
|
|
Tom Haynes wrote:
> We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext3
> filesystem"
> providing ext3 filesystem interoperability capabilities for OpenSolaris.
>
> The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is the standard
> filesystem for GNU/Linux and
> has been ported to other operating systems. It is a journaling
> filesystem and is an extension of the
> ext2 filesystem.
>
> We intend to approach the project in two phases:
>
> 1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of ext2. This will allow
> us to release the
> filesystem under the CDDL license.
>
> 2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation of ext2. We will
> add journaling at this
> time.
>
> The proposed leaders are:
> Jan Senolt
> Milan Jurik
> Tom Haynes
>
> Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the project and Tom will
> lead the initiative for the second
> phase of the project.
>
> The project will be associated with the Storage Community.
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
>
This sounds like a good resolution.
+1
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Posts:
43
From:
Registered:
6/4/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 4, 2007 8:49 PM
in response to: tdh
|
|
indeed a required project for OpenSolaris.
+1
regards,
Udayan
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%> Tom Haynes <Thomas dot Haynes at Sun dot COM>
Sent by: storage-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org
12/04/2007 10:14 PM
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
To
<td> Jan Senolt <senoltj at centrum dot cz>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
cc
<td> Milan dot Jurik at Sun dot COM, storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
<tr valign=top>
<td>
Subject
<td> [storage-discuss] Ext3 project proposal
[was Re: Ext2fs project proposal]</table>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
</table>
We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext3
filesystem"
providing ext3 filesystem interoperability capabilities for OpenSolaris.
The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is the standard
filesystem for GNU/Linux and
has been ported to other operating systems. It is a journaling
filesystem and is an extension of the
ext2 filesystem.
We intend to approach the project in two phases:
1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of ext2. This will allow
us to release the
filesystem under the CDDL license.
2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation of ext2. We will
add journaling at this
time.
The proposed leaders are:
Jan Senolt
Milan Jurik
Tom Haynes
Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the project and Tom will
lead the initiative for the second
phase of the project.
The project will be associated with the Storage Community.
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
64
From:
US
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
|
|
Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 5, 2007 1:55 AM
in response to: tdh
|
|
Tom Haynes wrote:
> We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project called "Ext3
> filesystem"
> providing ext3 filesystem interoperability capabilities for OpenSolaris.
>
> The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is the standard
> filesystem for GNU/Linux and
> has been ported to other operating systems. It is a journaling
> filesystem and is an extension of the
> ext2 filesystem.
>
> We intend to approach the project in two phases:
>
> 1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of ext2. This will allow
> us to release the
> filesystem under the CDDL license.
>
> 2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation of ext2. We will
> add journaling at this
> time.
>
> The proposed leaders are:
> Jan Senolt
> Milan Jurik
> Tom Haynes
>
> Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the project and Tom will
> lead the initiative for the second
> phase of the project.
>
> The project will be associated with the Storage Community.
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
+1
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Posts:
426
From:
GB
Registered:
3/21/06
|
|
|
|
Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
Posted:
Dec 10, 2007 5:52 PM
in response to: adailey
To: Communities » storage » discuss
|
|
+1
I would have liked to have seen more discussion on the benefits
to OpenSolaris by supporting ext2/3.
Certainly it is a very interesting academic exercise to
support this file system, and I am sure much will be learned
by all who participate in this project
from the creation of the necessary source code.
But ext2 is basically obsolete.
I think Red Hat Linux switched to ext3 back in 2002/3.
So I think ext2 will only be used by a very small minority.
And even if we get to a stage of ext3 support there is still
the issue that Cyril pointed to, that LVM is now used by
default by many Linux distributions.
And the Linux people are working on ext4...
The OpenSolaris ext3 project will need to provide very high
quality code and must be rigorously tested to
avoid any nasty data corruption issues.
(I assume we are talking about full read/write here.)
So there is a lot of work to be done before we have
anything that is really useful in today's world.
Even then, Milan Jurik warns that:
> Sharing home directories between two OSes can be dangerous, because some
> applications can be surprised that their configs are for other versions
> of them.
Do people see this ext2/3 as helping interoperability?
But then this is only an issue if you want to share data between
partitions on the same PC, when dual-booting Linux & Solaris.
Do many people really want/need to do this?
Surely most people will have separate PC's for Linux and
Solaris and share data with something like NFS across the network.
Is it the idea that the ext2/3 filesystem will be a viable
alternative to UFS (or ZFS) when installing/booting OpenSolaris?
Has anyone yet ascertained if there is any documentation for ext3 ?
Hopefully the project page will link to the documentation for ext2.
Will the GNU e2fsprogs need some patching to run on OpenSolaris?
Are the underlying API's different on Solaris to Linux?
Regards
Nigel Smith
|
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Jason J. W. Wil...
jasonjwwilliams@gmai...
|
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
Posted:
Dec 10, 2007 6:01 PM
in response to: nwsmith
|
|
Hi Nigel,
+1
Having ext3 (and XFS) support would ease migration of Linux boxes to
OpenSolaris. At least in our environment (XFS).
-J
On Dec 10, 2007 6:52 PM, Nigel Smith <nwsmith at wilusa dot freeserve dot co dot uk> wrote:
> +1
>
> I would have liked to have seen more discussion on the benefits
> to OpenSolaris by supporting ext2/3.
>
> Certainly it is a very interesting academic exercise to
> support this file system, and I am sure much will be learned
> by all who participate in this project
> from the creation of the necessary source code.
>
> But ext2 is basically obsolete.
> I think Red Hat Linux switched to ext3 back in 2002/3.
> So I think ext2 will only be used by a very small minority.
>
> And even if we get to a stage of ext3 support there is still
> the issue that Cyril pointed to, that LVM is now used by
> default by many Linux distributions.
>
> And the Linux people are working on ext4...
>
> The OpenSolaris ext3 project will need to provide very high
> quality code and must be rigorously tested to
> avoid any nasty data corruption issues.
> (I assume we are talking about full read/write here.)
>
> So there is a lot of work to be done before we have
> anything that is really useful in today's world.
>
> Even then, Milan Jurik warns that:
> > Sharing home directories between two OSes can be dangerous, because some
> > applications can be surprised that their configs are for other versions
> > of them.
>
> Do people see this ext2/3 as helping interoperability?
> But then this is only an issue if you want to share data between
> partitions on the same PC, when dual-booting Linux & Solaris.
> Do many people really want/need to do this?
>
> Surely most people will have separate PC's for Linux and
> Solaris and share data with something like NFS across the network.
>
> Is it the idea that the ext2/3 filesystem will be a viable
> alternative to UFS (or ZFS) when installing/booting OpenSolaris?
>
> Has anyone yet ascertained if there is any documentation for ext3 ?
>
> Hopefully the project page will link to the documentation for ext2.
>
> Will the GNU e2fsprogs need some patching to run on OpenSolaris?
> Are the underlying API's different on Solaris to Linux?
>
> Regards
> Nigel Smith
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
>
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Posts:
426
From:
GB
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Posts:
136
From:
US
Registered:
6/12/07
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
Posted:
Dec 10, 2007 9:11 PM
in response to: nwsmith
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I don't know of my opinion matter, but
+1
Ext3 is reverse-compatible with ext2. (Assuming its not LVM) I can mount, read and write an ext3 FS with a ext2 implementation.
I don't see this as helping interoperability so much as I see it helping migrations. It is also interesting because, like it or not, I have ext3 FSes in zvols (which could be mounted with an ext2 implementation). I haven't thought the implications through, but I'm sure I can come up with some creative things to do on a clone or after unmounting the drive.
Andrew Hettinger
http://Prominic.NET || AHettinger at Prominic dot NET
Tel: 866.339.3169 (toll free) -or- +1.217.356.2888 x.110 (int'l)
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storage-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org wrote on 12/10/2007 07:52:45 PM:
> +1
>
> I would have liked to have seen more discussion on the benefits
> to OpenSolaris by supporting ext2/3.
>
> Certainly it is a very interesting academic exercise to
> support this file system, and I am sure much will be learned
> by all who participate in this project
> from the creation of the necessary source code.
>
> But ext2 is basically obsolete.
> I think Red Hat Linux switched to ext3 back in 2002/3.
> So I think ext2 will only be used by a very small minority.
>
> And even if we get to a stage of ext3 support there is still
> the issue that Cyril pointed to, that LVM is now used by
> default by many Linux distributions.
>
> And the Linux people are working on ext4...
>
> The OpenSolaris ext3 project will need to provide very high
> quality code and must be rigorously tested to
> avoid any nasty data corruption issues.
> (I assume we are talking about full read/write here.)
>
> So there is a lot of work to be done before we have
> anything that is really useful in today's world.
>
> Even then, Milan Jurik warns that:
> > Sharing home directories between two OSes can be dangerous, because some
> > applications can be surprised that their configs are for other versions
> > of them.
>
> Do people see this ext2/3 as helping interoperability?
> But then this is only an issue if you want to share data between
> partitions on the same PC, when dual-booting Linux & Solaris.
> Do many people really want/need to do this?
>
> Surely most people will have separate PC's for Linux and
> Solaris and share data with something like NFS across the network.
>
> Is it the idea that the ext2/3 filesystem will be a viable
> alternative to UFS (or ZFS) when installing/booting OpenSolaris?
>
> Has anyone yet ascertained if there is any documentation for ext3 ?
>
> Hopefully the project page will link to the documentation for ext2.
>
> Will the GNU e2fsprogs need some patching to run on OpenSolaris?
> Are the underlying API's different on Solaris to Linux?
>
> Regards
> Nigel Smith
>
>
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> storage-discuss mailing list
> storage-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/storage-discuss
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Posts:
1,174
From:
IL
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
Posted:
Dec 10, 2007 11:35 PM
in response to: oninoshi
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On Dec 11, 2007 7:11 AM, Andrew M. Hettinger <AHettinger at prominic dot net> wrote:
> I don't see this as helping interoperability so much as I see it helping
> migrations. It is also interesting because, like it or not, I have ext3 FSes
I am not so sure about migration. In my experience (which by no means
should be treated as universal truth) when migrating data people are doing
it over NFS. When you have a machine with plenty of data sitting on Linux/ext3
and want to move it (data) to Solaris/ZFS (or something else) you gonna have
both machines up and running and than transfer the data. In this scenario NFS
serves you pretty well and requires no special dances around.
--
Regards,
Cyril
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Posts:
161
From:
US
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5/25/05
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Re: Ext3 project proposal [was Re: Ext2fs project
proposal]
Posted:
Dec 13, 2007 4:42 PM
in response to: tdh
To: Communities » storage » discuss
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>
> We would like to propose a new Open Solaris project
> called "Ext3 filesystem"
> providing ext3 filesystem interoperability
> capabilities for OpenSolaris.
>
> The ext3 filesystem (or Third Extended Filesystem) is
> the standard filesystem for GNU/Linux and
> has been ported to other operating systems. It is a
> journaling filesystem and is an extension of the
> ext2 filesystem.
>
> We intend to approach the project in two phases:
>
> 1) Implement ext2 based on public documentation of
> ext2. This will allow us to release the
> filesystem under the CDDL license.
>
> 2) Implement ext3 based on the earlier implementation
> of ext2. We will add journaling at this time.
>
> The proposed leaders are:
> Jan Senolt
> Milan Jurik
> Tom Haynes
>
> Jan will be the leader of the first phase of the
> project and Tom will lead the initiative for the second
> phase of the project.
>
> The project will be associated with the Storage
> Community.
>
Tom, Jan & Milan,
Your proposal has been approved! I'll work with you all to get your project page created.
--jc
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